What cartridge would you choose? Varmints/Deer.

07 April 2022, 15:58

arkypete

While I was young and poor, with two lovely toddler daughters, I used a 243 for every thing. Ground hogs in the spring and summer, using 70 or 80 grains Sierra HPBT. When the leaves of fall started to turn I switched to 105 grain round nose.
Never understood why Speer discontinued the 105 round rose, it was the most accurate bullet that little Browning Safari used.

07 April 2022, 18:51

miles58

A 243 will do it and maybe even better is a .223. I have killed deer with 223s. I have used both 70 grain TSXs and 53 grain TSXs. The deer ran maybe 100 feet One didn't bleed for squat, but that happens about the same with a 30-06 when you sever the heart loose chest. On of them was a 200 lb (dressed) doe, so size isn't going to matter. None of the bullets stopped in the deer. I cannot fault the caliber when used with monos for deer.

When it comes to varmints you have everything from the 32-35 grain fragile bullets that will blow up hitting virtually anything to some decent 80 grain bullets if you want them. Free brass, doubles as a very quiet 22lr when you use light loads with Blue Dot. I use those 32-35 grain bullets for everything from chipmunks to coyotes, and they work great!

A lot of people will try to tell you it' too small for deer. The ones who've actually used it on deer will tell you the truth.

09 April 2022, 21:06

carpetman1

quote:
A lot of people will try to tell you it' too small for deer. The ones who've actually used it on deer will tell you the truth.

+1 VERY TRUE

10 April 2022, 06:12

miles58

My experience killing deer with it is that it tends to make a hole very comparable to a 30-30, but it goes all the way through. I could be happy killing the rest of my deer with a .223 and monos if it came down to it.

11 April 2022, 08:10

carpetman1

mILES58--All the deer I have seen shot with .223 were pass throughs except two. These two were smaller and at closer range which would make me think they were the least candidates for a non pass through. In both instances the base of the bullet in perfect mushroom was found just under the skin on the off side. Both bases weighed 40 grains, this was with 55 grain cup and core bullet.

11 April 2022, 16:05

Heym SR20

We have this debate a lot on this side of the pond, and the 243 very much reigns supreme, but in practice any deer legal cartridge (in reality a 243 with 100gn bullet and upwards) will work just as well on foxes as on deer. But all centrefire ammo is getting expensive and you are paying well over £1 a shot these days.

We do have rabbits, but any centrefire is really too much, especially if you want to eat them and most are shot with a 22rf and subsonic bullets.

But the more I use the more I like the 223 and its little brother the 222. We can use the 223 on Roe Deer provided we use a 50gn bullet, and in the past it was used on Red Deer with no issues. A 223 is still pretty cheap to run, accurate enough to head shoot rabbits and you can still take off the hind legs, very good on foxes, crows etc and would do the job on bigger animals as and when required if needed. A 223 matched with a 7x57 or similar is probably a very good choice.

But I really like the idea of little single shot Rook rifle religned to a 22 Hornet

12 April 2022, 00:35

TCLouis

I think you nailed it with your choice of the trusty 243.
It will fulfill the desired actions and likely to be on most ammo shelves . . .

Well except when the public goes nuts . . .

02 May 2022, 04:46

Jerry Eden

243 Winchester or a 6mm Remington, no need to look further. Excellent bullet choices from 70grains up to over 100 grains.

Jerry

24 May 2022, 00:02

Atkinson

The main flaw with the 22s on deer size game is the lack of blood trails in most cases, Ive seen many a days hunt ruined by long tracking jobs and hunters taking foolish shots..A 30-30 or 30-06 prevents that with reasonably placed shots and is defiantly for following a blood trail..

I really enjoy hunting deer and even elk with my old 30-30 and 25-35, requires hunter skill getting within a 100 or 200 yards sometimes, and they have iron sights so the closer the better, used right they definitely do the job.

Im a fan of the 22s on deer, but one needs to use the light guns with more consideration and be smart enough to realize its weaknesses such as range and circumstances andbe able to let those deer walk off and keep trying for a proper shot..or shoot from a blind at 100 to 200 yards max..I do that with my 25-35 also..BTW I always see the 40 inch mule deer or the 400 pt. elk when I have the 25-35 and at 400 yards of course!

be aware!

28 June 2022, 07:32

chuck375

270 Win. Sierra 90g HPBTs at 3400 fps for varmints. Any good 130g bullet at 3100 fps for deer.

28 June 2022, 16:01

p dog shooter

I am glad I don't to have to make that choice.

I am set up to load, the last time I checked 50 different gages and calibers.

I shot varmints and deer with every thing from 22rf to 458 caliber DGR's.

When I was younger and could not afford more then 1 center fire I used my 06 for everything.

Now days I have some trouble choosing what I use when I open up the safes.

28 June 2022, 18:56

Beretta682E

I love my 6.5 cm blaser I used to shoot 1000 rounds a year.

I would look at 6 arc or 6.5 Grendel.

It’s is the perfect single shot cartridge.

Mike

29 June 2022, 01:51

Michael Michalski

.243

29 June 2022, 02:08

30.06king

.243W

29 June 2022, 05:15

white eagle

for what you described I would use my 220 swift
with the correct bullets of course
way to accurate and hits with a ton of speed
ballistic tips for the small varmints and some bonded or mono alloy bullet for the rest

30 June 2022, 03:54

richj

Pop's first rifle was a win m70 in 243. He used that for woodchucks and deer for about 5 years.

Then he bought a 30-06 carbine. Relegated the 243 just for chucks.

01 July 2022, 02:24

Atkinson

I think I shot more deer and coyotes and my first half dozen elk with my my win. 94 in 25-35 and I still hunt deer with it, mostly on white tail culls.

Its always been a special hunt for mule deer and white tail with the 25-35 and/or the 30-30 horseback or slipping thru the thick stuff, or callling varmints,and your limited to what shots you take, sorta like hunting with a pistol or bow.

04 July 2022, 01:59

Palladin8

My very first centerfire rifle was a early 80's Remington ADL 700 in 243Win. I used it to take my first Deer and Elk. I also used it on a few coyote of opportunity and some prairie dogs. Back then I didn't reload so I used the Remington 100gr Core-Lokt ammo for everything.

I sold that rifle when I moved back east where shotgun only for deer was the norm. It wasn't until I moved back out west that I bought another rifle. I bought a 25-06. My good friend hunted with a Ruger 77 in 25-06 and he killed Elk and Deer almost every year with ease. He and his father both hunted with the caliber.

I have since been able to buy other rifles and pretty much pick whatever rifle I feel like when I go hunting.

With all that said I wouldn't hesitate to have one of the 6mm calibers as a do all rifle. with the 243Win you can shoot 55gr up to 100gr bullets. 6MM Remington would be the same unless you got one of the older ones with the slower twist.
The 6MM Creedmor will shoot the heavier bullets because it will come with a 7 twist barrel.

Any of those rifles with a 100gr Partition, 100gr Hornady or Sierra, 80gr Swift Scirocco, 85gr TTSX, or several other quality bullets and it will be lights out for any deer.

If you're on the western side of the state then the Blacktails aren't going to be much larger than a Whitetail anyway. There isn't a Whitetail on this planet that will stop a 6mm caliber rifle that is using a big game bullet.

My brother inlaw lives in Eugene and he hunts deer with a custom 22WSM with a fast twist barrel. I think he is using the 75gr Swift if memory serves. He gets a deer every time he goes hunting.

16 August 2022, 11:23

Eddie Southgate

.243 all day long.

10 September 2022, 04:02

Blacktail53

If I wanted to buy a new rifle for the tasks you’ve described, I’d look no further that the new 6mm Creedmoor.

It’s not “better” than a lot of the cartridges that have been offered, but it’s design allows for a lot more flexibility than most. Loading a 55gr bullet for strafing ground squirrels and rock chucks - or whatever bullet you happen to like. Then load one of the new long high BC bullets for mule deer class game.

The fast twist allows use of longer bullets and it’s case design allows proper seating to fit the magazine. Something neither the .243 or 6mm REM can do in a short action rifle.

You don’t alway need a lot of speed - so you can run those 55’s at a gentle pace and bring recoil down to almost zero. Winds blowing - load those long heavy numbers and go back to work on those chucks.

I used a .270 for everything from squirrels to elk very effectively in my less affluent youth. Now I can pick from .17, .20, .22, .24 calibers and bunch of larger ones. But if I were going to start over and fulfill your specific requirements, I’d just stay a good 6 Creed and not look back…. Then I’d find a way to buy a .223, because that’s where the real fun starts….

27 November 2022, 23:29

Atkinson

bOTTOM LINE, caliber is not as important as bullet construction that matches the caliber IMO..and making that adjustment in your hunting style, know the limits of your skill and your gun..A 22 LR used properly is an awesome deer caliber, and so is a big bore elephant rifle, Ive shot a lot of camp meat in Africa with a 404, 416 and even a 450-400 double, they all work if you approach the hunt right. Fed a fencing crew as a kid on our ranch in Mexico with a 22 win mod 63..they all worked.

10 December 2022, 19:59

Matt in Virginia

IMHO & FWIW,
A .257 Roberts +P. That being said brass is hard to come by and I might let practicality push me toward a .25 Creedmoor. I have always had good service from quarter bores in general...

I still deeply regret allowing the Roberts to get away from me. It was an instant success story out of the box. The first handloads, with fire formed brass, shot a bit less than 1/2" at 100 yards. Sometimes tighter. Gentle to shoot and a pleasure to carry.

Regards, Matt.

10 December 2022, 22:18

ClaMar

Matt,

I agree with you, but also believe that the .257 Roberts is close to perfect, even without improving it or pushing the pressures. My Mauser, barreled with a Douglas featherweight and the 100 gr. Nosler, either BT or Partition, is hard to beat and I won't make the mistake of letting it go.

Clarence

11 December 2022, 04:26

Hipshoot

quote:
Originally posted by Matt in Virginia:
IMHO & FWIW,
A .257 Roberts +P. That being said brass is hard to come by and I might let practicality push me toward a .25 Creedmoor. I have always had good service from quarter bores in general...

I still deeply regret allowing the Roberts to get away from me. It was an instant success story out of the box. The first handloads, with fire formed brass, shot a bit less than 1/2" at 100 yards. Sometimes tighter. Gentle to shoot and a pleasure to carry.

Regards, Matt.

Use 6mm Rem. brass (easiest) or buy a neck turner (maybe) and use 7x57 Mauser brass.

You only have to use the neck turner once (MAYBE!)

Hip

14 December 2022, 02:58

whitetail1

If you are hunting in Grizzly country. 30-06. If not 243.

19 December 2022, 06:33

f224

quote:
Originally posted by dogcat:
As long it is a Blaser, you will be fine.

Any caliber from .243 to .30-06 should be fine.

Exactly!

That said, the 6mm Creedmore is essentially equal to the 243/6mmRem. You will find 243 ammo everywhere, the other two; maybe, maybe not.

The 6.5x55 is an incredibly good cartridge for everything from prairie dogs (lite bullets = 90-95gr) to big deer (130-156gr = bullets.

The Blaser's shoot all of them very well.

24 December 2022, 00:22

DannoBoone

quote:
Originally posted by DannoBoone:
Well, it's been almost a year since this thread began. Mr. Kennedy, did you make a decision?

Back in the late '60's I got a Rem700 in .25-06 for both prairie dogs and deer. I was in awe
what that rifle could do. Still very impressed. I loaded Hornady 75gr HP's to 3300fps for the
PD's and Hornady 100gr SP's to 3100fpsfor deer. Those loads had nearly identical trajectories to
300yds. They since dropped the 75gr HP's, but I imagine the 75gr V-maxes would do even better. It
got a lot of PD's out to 300yds and after a summer of that, a 300yd mulie was a piece of cake.

A few years ago, I got a .243, and even though it is very accurate, just not as impressed with
it. Changing bullet weights requires a complete scope adjustment since groups end up changing
horizontally as well as vertically. That doesn't happen with my .25-06 with the above loads.

That being said, a choice between the two is nearly a toss up. Both will suit the needs
provided good bullet choices.

15 February 2023, 05:00

JeffreyPhD

375 H&H.

15 February 2023, 10:38

Use Enough Gun

quote:
375 H&H.

15 February 2023, 22:59

JeffreyPhD

quote:
Originally posted by Use Enough Gun:
quote:
375 H&H.

Seems like that would work for you too, given your forum name!

20 February 2023, 06:29

Use Enough Gun

quote:
Seems like that would work for you too, given your forum name!

Ah, yes, enough gun, just not too much gun. Big difference.

21 February 2023, 15:16

Dr. Lou

6.5 CM

03 March 2023, 17:17

Timan

Rock chucks, coyotes, deer. All low volume of fire, I doubt you'll ever shoot a 10 shot string on any of those three.
Chucks, Coyote, occasionally deer. 243 Winchester, 6mm Rem./.244
This type of scenario is exactly why those cartridges where developed.
For deer use a bullet that is 80+ grains in weight.
The 243 WSSM? Never really caught on as far as I can tell. In the right type of build this cartridge has the potential to be interesting. Treatment? 1-7 twist barrel, snug neck or neck turn only reamer dimensions, long throat, seat heavy for caliber high BC bullets out, run a 26" to 30" barrel of medium to heavy contour, or possibly a Carbon Six or Proof Reasearch barrel and of course a slow burn rate powder.

03 March 2023, 22:07

Atkinson

Never gave this blog much thought, probably because I would just pick a deer caliber to start with and use that rifle for varmints. varmint rifle to me is whatever I have in hand, bothers me not to miss a varmint in the first place, as Im a big game hunter by choice and the rest is neither here nor there with me..Im kinda the same with birds,whatever shotgun is handy and fishing is weather related!

Did I say I love to team rope!

29 April 2023, 10:20

TEANCUM

When I first started hunting, I would buy calibers in rifles and handguns that would cover a multitude of applications. It worked for a long time and then I started to get more specific calibers for specific needs and found my enjoyment increased.

My premiere choice for a varmint rifle is the 22-250 and for deer and some elk applications would be the 6.5CM. If I was a dedicated elk hunter it would be a 300PRC.

Also the joy would be having two rifles.....if the budget would handle both purchases.