Out of curiosity how many 22 hornet enthusiasts are here on the forum ? Do you use the hornet regularly or is the hornet just a save queen that you keep for sentimental reason?

Not sure if I fall in the enthusiast slot, but I do have three of them and enjoy shooting them. Reloading is pretty straight forward and at 13gr a clip a pound of powder goes a long ways and loads a whole lotta rounds.

In a Bockdrilling, the hornet barrel gets regular use on fox.

In an Anschutz it gets used for a lot of practice and competition shooting.

In the R93 for practice and fun, Waidmannsheil, Dom.

With enough umph for small game, but no recoil and cheap to relad, it's too much fun to leave in te safe. The biggest problem I have is stopping before I shoot up all my ammo.

Ingvar,
At the expence of pissing off the Hornet guys here, get a .221 Fireball, and don't look back.
Cases last for what seems to be for ever.
I didn't post this to offend anyone just my observastions. Your option.
Stepchild

Not really an enthusiast as I only have two (one K), and shoot targets. They are neat and fun to shoot and reload.

K Hornets are the way to go.

i do have a few, most are converted to k hornets and one (a browning lowall) is converted to 221. hornets are cheap to load for, and easy on the ears. makes them a near perfect for urban type areas

I have killed two bobcats in the last 6 weeks with my .22 Hornet. Have been using Winchester Factory ammo, which is loaded with a 46 grain hollow point. Both cats were one shot kills. My rifle is a BRNO-465 and it wears a Leupold VX3 2.5 to 8x.......it is a fun little gun!

I use a Cooper in 22 Hornet for shooting Woodchucks around our pool area. Relatively quite and much more power and further reaching than a 22 RF.

quote:

Originally posted by Bailey Bradshaw:
With enough umph for small game, but no recoil and cheap to relad, it's too much fun to leave in te safe. The biggest problem I have is stopping before I shoot up all my ammo.

Sounds like my "problem", as well! I have 4......a CZ 527, a Charles Daly, an H&R Handi and a Springfield M6 in 22H/410.

I have two Hornets, one K-Hornet, and one .221 Fireball. I enjoy all of them. The Fireball can be loaded to somewhat higher pressures, and its larger capacity really takes it a bit out of the Hornet class; it is much more like a .222 than a Hornet.

The great thing about Hornets is that there is no need nor excuse for hotrodding them. If you want something bigger and faster, buy one of jillions of .223's on the market. Load and shoot the Hornet much like the factories, around 2600 fps (or a bit snappier with the great little 35 grain Hornady's). Kept to reasonable pressures cases won't stretch and will last as long as any caliber.

I don't really find much difference in the regular Hornet and the K-Hornet. Maybe you can squeeze 50 or 100 fps more out of the K, but why try? Treat the regular Hornet right and you'll have no case stretching problems, anyway.

Incidentally, I'm cursed with owning an excellent Oehler chronograph and understand that Lil Gun will produce the highest velocities in a Hornet -- and the lowest -- all from identical loads. It is woefully inconsistent in velocities. AA 1680 is much more benign and gives you as much velocity as is appropriate to the little cartridge.

I go from Hornet to .222 and skip the .221. On the Lil Gun, what primers are you using to get such wide spreads? I am just not seeing that with mine using CCI small pistol primers and NO crimp with the 40 grain V-Max bullet

quote:

On the Lil Gun, what primers are you using to get such wide spreads?

None of the primers I've tried with Lil Gun have shown any tendancy to tame its wildness. Others have noted the velocity spreads with Lil Gun in the Hornet and like me, have moved on to powders which produce more uniform results. However, some people seem to have much better luck with it.

Ironically, when I tried Lil Gun in a large capacity revolver load with a very heavy bullet, it produced extraordinarily good results in terms of both high velocity and low spreads.

quote:

I am just not seeing that with mine using CCI small pistol primers and NO crimp with the 40 grain V-Max bullet

I don't mean to be argumentative or disbelieve you've had good results with Lil Gun, but have you actually chronographed a string of loads with Lil Gun to check the velocity spreads?

I really like Lil Gun in the Hornet, 1680 too!

Most other powders have given me flyers, and what I consider erratic performance. Lil Gun hasen't been wild as some of you suggest, but here's a couple numbers. 13 Lil Gun/35Gr V-MAX/3155fps, es 63. 5 shot 100yd groups under or right at 1", also 13.8 grains of 1680, with the same bullet gets 2969 fps and an es of 31.

These results are out of a 1941 Model 23 D Savage. My other buddies get the same results with various other rifles.

Jerry

quote:

Originally posted by Stonecreek:

I don't mean to be argumentative or disbelieve you've had good results with Lil Gun, but have you actually chronographed a string of loads with Lil Gun to check the velocity spreads?

Ineresting question. I shot Lil Gun in my Hornet exclusively and made some pretty astounding hits because the combination was so accurate, but I never checked the deviation. The one or two rounds I did shoot over the chrono were 3000 fps if memory serves (Hornady 35 gr V-Max).

It begs the question: does velocity variation matter in a round few shoot past 100-200 yds when the starting velocity in at or above 2700 fps?

quote:

It begs the question: does velocity variation matter in a round few shoot past 100-200 yds when the starting velocity in at or above 2700 fps?

Good point. However, my velocity spreads with Lil Gun were running in the 200+ fps range, or roughly an 8% variation. That would seem large enough to create some bit of dispersion, even at 100 yards.

It would be fair to ask me if I had found accuracy to be lacking with Lil Gun. To be fair, I didn't collect any hard data to show that it grouped less well than other powders, but when I could get "normal" Hornet performance from other powders with good grouping I didn't feel that playing with a powder that produced high velocity variations (and implicitly, high pressure variations) was worth the extra 50 or 100 fps that Lil Gun seems capable of.

I certainly don't wish to pick a fight with Lil Gun enthusiasts; I merely wish to warn that Lil Gun offers no free lunch and may have some drawbacks that partially offset its velocity potential.

That's a lot of variation, to be sure. It would work on me to no end if I knew my loads were like that and I'd have to switch powders too.

OTOH, it reinforces what I tell some of my friends that ask if they can use the Chrony: be careful what you wish for. Sometimes you CAN have too much information, lol.

Stonecreek: Sounds like you are loading the 22 Jet in a revolver. Never seen extreme spreads like that in a rifle!

Jerry

I have one, a re worked Rugar M77/22H. IT'S THE Walnut/blued version with a VHZ SS barrel punched out to a K. It wears a 2x10 Weaver, likes Sierra #1210 45gr bullets, and is my walking around rifle. Have tried mostly LG with pistol primers, but have a can of AA1680 to try next, due to what I have read about it. Al

quote:

Originally posted by Stonecreek:

quote:

I am just not seeing that with mine using CCI small pistol primers and NO crimp with the 40 grain V-Max bullet

I don't mean to be argumentative or disbelieve you've had good results with Lil Gun, but have you actually chronographed a string of loads with Lil Gun to check the velocity spreads?

I've used the Hornet with LILGUN for about 12 years now. I think you are way too hard on the powder and totally ignoring the brass stretching/pressure problems with other powders.

I have never seen a world record bench rest group yet that was shot solely on a chronograph.

Even with neck sized , fireformed Hornet cases,loads generating 40,000CUPS WILL stretch cases to the point hey need to be pitched after only a few firings. EVERY other powder used in the Hornet- including aa-1680 generates those pressures to get more than factory velocities.

LILGUN is the only powder than operates at 36,000CUPS or less and produces decent speeds.

As to your chrono strings and velocity variations- I bet they did NOT show up in the group sizes. I also bet you did not experiment with load compression to eliminate it as LILGUN does not like to be excessively compressed like 296 or 110 etc.

Also ,primers have an effect.

At any rate,you experiences seem to be the EXCEPTION rather than the rule as 99% of the folks who try LIL-GUN in the Hornet love the powder.

Especially if they do not want to throw their brass away after two firings.

Here are just a few lines from the Hodgdon Data site for 22 Hornets with popular Hornet powders.

The reason why LILGUN is such a great choice is the fact it operates at 3/4 of the pressure to get the same or better velocities- as shown by the data below.. Frankly, only a fool would ignore such a benefit in thin cases such as a Hornet.

30 GR. BAR VG FB IMR IMR 4227 .224" 1.750" 10.0 2321 37,300 CUP 11.7C 2703 37,600 CUP
30 GR. BAR VG FB Winchester 296 .224" 1.750" 11.1 2807 33,000 CUP 12.3 3150 41,500 CUP
30 GR. BAR VG FB Hodgdon H110 .224" 1.750" 11.1 2807 33,000 CUP 12.3 3150 41,500 CUP
30 GR. BAR VG FB Hodgdon Lil'Gun .224" 1.750" 11.7 2863 26,300 CUP 13.0 3055 29,700 CUP
35 GR. HDY V-MAX Hodgdon H4198 .224" 1.725" 10.5 2223 23,100 CUP 11.5C 2420 26,300 CUP
35 GR. HDY V-MAX Hodgdon H4227 .224" 1.725" 10.5 2630 35,600 CUP 11.6C 2896 42,500 CUP
35 GR. HDY V-MAX Hodgdon H110 .224" 1.725" 11.0 2805 32,700 CUP 12.3 3060 41,400 CUP
35 GR. HDY V-MAX Hodgdon Lil'Gun .224" 1.725" 12.0 2694 22,000 CUP 13.0 2842 24,000 CUP
40 GR. SPR SP Hodgdon H4198 .224" 1.725" 10.5 2253 26,100 CUP 11.5C 2488 32,800 CUP
40 GR. SPR SP Hodgdon H4227 .224" 1.725" 9.0 2421 39,900 CUP 10.2 2567 43,000 CUP
40 GR. SPR SP Hodgdon H110 .224" 1.725" 10.0 2569 32,400 CUP 11.2 2795 41,800 CUP
40 GR. SPR SP Hodgdon Lil'Gun .2241.725" 12.0 2667 24,900 CUP 13.0 2826 28,400 CUP

jim62: I'm one of those 1%. After 4 different primers and 8 different bullets I used the last of my Lil'gun to make a Jr Atom bomb mushroom cloud for the grand kids on the forth. I will stick with Rem 6 1/2 primers and 1680/296.

Love the 22 Hornets. I have a custom Savage 340 in 22 K Hornet. These have their limitations but they work great out to 100 yard or so. I use Lil gun and 1680.

Tony

Fat_Albert:

I can agree wtih you on the 1680,as it works, at least group size wise, almost as well as Lil Gun in my rifle. However, 296 was one of the most eratic and flyer causing powders I have tried in the Hornet.

Jerry

jim62:

If you're happy with Lil Gun far be it from me to spoil your happiness.

From your comments it appears that you have not chronographed any Lil Gun loads and are depending on a single source, the maker of the product, for your information. I'm sure that information is accurate, as far as it goes. It lists only average velocities and not velocity variations. Nor does it provide any information on average accuracy.

It is true that loads which exhibit fairly wide variations in velocities can still turn pretty good groups. I'm just not comfortable with a powder that produces such wide swings, as such swings almost certainly also represent swings in pressure. But to each his own. Enjoy.

AA-1680 behaves quite predictably. It is impossible to overload a Hornet with it (using bullets of 45 grains and less), and it yields velocities at least equal to factory loads. Let a Hornet be a Hornet. If you want a .223, then buy a .223.

quote:

Originally posted by Stonecreek:
jim62:

If you're happy with Lil Gun far be it from me to spoil your happiness.

From your comments it appears that you have not chronographed any Lil Gun loads and are depending on a single source, the maker of the product, for your information. I'm sure that information is accurate, as far as it goes. It lists only average velocities and not velocity variations. Nor does it provide any information on average accuracy.

It is true that loads which exhibit fairly wide variations in velocities can still turn pretty good groups. I'm just not comfortable with a powder that produces such wide swings, as such swings almost certainly also represent swings in pressure. But to each his own. Enjoy.

AA-1680 behaves quite predictably. It is impossible to overload a Hornet with it (using bullets of 45 grains and less), and it yields velocities at least equal to factory loads. Let a Hornet be a Hornet. If you want a .223, then buy a .223.

Actually, I have chronoed my Hornet loads. That's how of verified the pressure/velocity relationship in my own rifles.

I also settled on small pistol primers to get the spreads down and did no over compress the charges.

Your comment about "hottrodding" the Hornet into a higher class of cartridge is gunny, since my aim is to merely match factory velocites at LOWER pressures that extr the brass life.

WFWI, I like AA 1680- it was my favorite Hornet powder for about 6 years until I got ahold of some LILGUN in 1998. The problem is- it's pressure/velocity relationship is no better than 296/110 and several other powders.

The hard fact is, the only powder out there that gets decent velocity without brass wrecking pressures is LILGUN. I don';t like to through Honret cases away after only three firings and I have had NONE of the problems some folks here mention with the LILGUN after working with the powder in a half dozen Hornets.

So for now, I will continued to use it and recommend it.As well as tell the the side of things when I see folks bashing it.

I have found Lil Gun with 45gr. bullets to be so accurate out of my CZ that I haven't bothered with other powders. Kinda like "it ain't broke so why fix it?"

quote:

Originally posted by akpls:
I have found Lil Gun with 45gr. bullets to be so accurate out of my CZ that I haven't bothered with other powders. Kinda like "it ain't broke so why fix it?"

Aww, shucks A, don't you know, true happiness is a 35g V max with it's WHOPPING of .109 BC with AA1680 behind it?

I mean really, would would even THINK of using those 45g slugs with their "paltry" .200 BCs?

AA1680 overcomes ALL ills ..Even 35g bullets shaped like a stream pebble..

One question fellas:

I just bought this Ruger 77/22 hornet, it only has about 30 rounds through it. It’s was manufactured in 2004 and I would like to know if Ruger had fixed these accuracy issues before 2004 ? It’s the 77/22-VHZ Target Grey model.

I've got a lefty Browning A-Bolt in 22 Hornet. I've been loading LiL Gun with a 40 gr V max, and Rem 6 1/2 primers. When the weather warms up I'll take it to the range and chrono 10 shots and post the results.

The .22 Hornet is the little prince of wildcats, there are dozens of wildcats based on this little jewel. I have a few .22 hornets as well as probably 18 wildcats... It's a very simple little round, based on the old 22 WCF btw.

Ingvar, I have purchased 6 Rugers 77/22 in the last 2-3 years, zero problems to report!

quote:

Originally posted by Ingvar J. Kristjansson:
One question fellas:

I just bought this Ruger 77/22 hornet, it only has about 30 rounds through it. It’s was manufactured in 2004 and I would like to know if Ruger had fixed these accuracy issues before 2004 ? It’s the 77/22-VHZ Target Grey model.

Add me as a fan.



And its perfect for small varmints such as this grey!



GWB

Another fan of the Hornet. Mines exclusively used on urban fox over here and with a moderator, superb. That 35 gr Vmax is the perfect combo too

Haggis,

+1 on that statement
and accurate also.

GWB




off the bench at 100 yds!

My Pride and joy, it has 1:14" barrel

Compare Speer manuals # 13 & 14.
In 14 Speer says they switched to small pistol primers.
Apparently the small pistol (cci500) primers they used reduced the extreme velocity spreads, enough that they were able to show load recipes for a bunch more powders beyond what they published in manual #13.

Hodgdon's annual manual do show LIL'GUN and 35 gr vmax loads, which I will try one day.

My Hornady #7 manual doesn't even list a load recipe for LIL GUN and their own 35 gr vmax bullet.

They certainly had the room on the page to list a recipe if they wanted to.
I suspect the velocity spreads they recorded were to great to warrant publishing a load recipe.
They wouldn't want their bullet to get a rep as a non grouper due to wild velocity spreads that seem to be the norm for the Hornet case.(Hornady was using small rifle primers)

My own load testing is showing a trend, that is at maximum publish powder charge weights (were pressures are highest) Hodgdons H110 seems to be showing me much smaller velocity spreads. More testing is required, the trend I see may not be real and my data is just one day that H110 played nice with the chrono.
I read once that smokeless powders worked more efficiently under higher pressure maybe H110 needs to reach ~43,000 psi to reach its stride, settle down and lock in a velocity.
No doubt the case life will be shorter, so what, that what LIL GUN is for.

Shooting 45 gr Sierra "Hornet" bullet with LIL'GUN leaves the primers slightly protruding after firing. Certainly low pressure in those cases.
The the B.C. of the 45 gr. bullets and their retained down range velocity leaves me wondering why I'm even bothering with the 35 gr Vmax which fly like a badminton shuttle cock.
Still its fun to tinker with different loads.

I have three or? 22 Hornets and love them all. I enjoy them as I cast bullets and can shoot almost cheaper than 22 LKR ammo these days. I use Lil Gun and it seems ok o me.
Aloha, Mark

Eurocentric, my ruger looks identical to yours, but i don't know when it was made, but it's a very accurate rifle. I bought mine used in 2005.

On www.Ruger.com site go to the customer service tab.

Move down the drop down menu to "instruction manuals and product history" select it.

In the next widow that opens chose "show all" on the line that has your firearm type.

Another list of firearms appears make your choice again.

Another small window will open that show manufacturing date years for the serial numbers.

And you can get a new owner instruction manual.

Here a link to get you close.

http://www.ruger.com/service/productHistory.html#