The Accurate Reloading Forums
Varmint/Deer Combo calibers...
23 May 2018, 13:31
KY NimrodVarmint/Deer Combo calibers...
For me, the allure of cartridges like the .243, 257 Roberts, .260 Remington etc is the fact that these calibers have the real ability to serve well in either capacity as an excellent varmint rifle and a real 300-400 yard deer killer.
The availability of light (for caliber) varmint bullets like a dedicated varmint bullet--say 75 grain in .257 and a heavier 100 or 115 grain deer bullet seems to me to turn these rifles into very versatile guns that can give grear service in either role.
In that spirit I'm wondering if any of you have had any luck getting these rifles to shoot to a similar point of aim at a given range that allows you to use the same scope setting for both light varmint and heavier deer loads? Obviously these bullet paths will merge and diverge over distance. But I'm wondering if any of you have found a happy compromise without changing your scope settings?
So share your loads/bullet combos and zero data...
23 May 2018, 16:02
p dog shooterquote:
any luck getting these rifles to shoot to a similar point of aim
Yes, no and maybe most of the time no.
I had rifles the put every thing close enough for shooting a lot of things.
I had rifles that wouldn't.
All one can do it try the rifle that you have.
23 May 2018, 18:01
hivelosityquote:
either capacity as an excellent varmint rifle and a real 300-400 yard deer killer.
The 270 works for me. 140gr bullet on cyotes. clean kills and not much fur damage
23 May 2018, 18:15
the jigger22-250 60gr V-Max and 60gr Nosler Partition.
243 75gr V-Max and 95gr Partition will strike
pretty close.
IF YOU'RE GONNA GET OLD,YOU BETTER BE TOUGH!! GETTIN' OLD AIN'T FOR SISSIES!!
23 May 2018, 22:32
AtkinsonI tried most all of them and settled on the 250-3000 Savage many years ago for deer and varmints..Even shot a few elk with it..Its an awesome caliber and I've never seen one that wasn't a tack driver, including the 99 Savages..
I used the .243 and it killed good but ever so often it failed, I liked the 257 Robts but ran across more than a few that wouldn't shoot for flip..Just my two bits..
I tried the 222, 223, and 22-250, I liked the 60 gr. Hornady SP or HP (either one) just don't push the distance beyond 200 yards is good advise..ONe of these would be my choice if I mostly shot varmints and an ocassional deer for the pot..A bit light for long shots and trophy hunting and a no no for elk, although many elk have died on the spot hit right with those calibers..
Ray Atkinson
Atkinson Hunting Adventures
10 Ward Lane,
Filer, Idaho, 83328
208-731-4120
rayatkinsonhunting@gmail.com
26 May 2018, 00:13
wasbeemanNever pass up the opportunity to buy another rifle. I have varmint rifles and I have deer rifles. I do not have varmint/deer rifles.
While it's true you can shoot a Pdog with a 270 (or a 458 for that matter), it's certainly not the ideal situation. After trying a bit of what you suggest, I decided two rifles(or more) was the answer.
Aim for the exit hole
257 Roberts. 75gr VMax and 80gr TTSX. same 100yd POI.
26 May 2018, 03:24
mdstewartIn Georgia and Tennessee where I mostly hunt, it is illegal to hunt big game with anything less than a .240 caliber.
You definitely need two rifles, why not just pick up a Couple of Tikka T-3 Lites, one in .22-250 and another in .300WSM?
Or I can set you up with an absolutely wonderful Sako Rhimaki in .222 Rem and a Custom Mauser in .300 H&H Mag Now that’s a real combo for anything in Most of the world.
JP Sauer Drilling 12x12x9.3x72
David Murray Scottish Hammer 12 Bore
Alex Henry 500/450 Double Rifle
Steyr Classic Mannlicher Fullstock 6.5x55
Steyr Classic Mannlicher Fullstock .30-06
Walther PPQ H2 9mm
Walther PPS M2
Cogswell & Harrison Hammer 12 Bore Damascus
And Too Many More
26 May 2018, 04:44
bartsche
considering choices in bullet weights and types,availability of brass and ammo, rifle and barrel weight I would go with a .243 Savage deer rifle with the barrel cut and crowned to 22". Then I would choose a descent variable scope perhaps up to 18X or a little less.
roger
Old age is a high price to pay for maturity!!! Some never pay and some pay and never reap the reward. Wisdom comes with age! Sometimes age comes alone..
26 May 2018, 04:48
Mike_DettorreWell - I use a varmint/deer/elk rifle. It's called a 308 win with 155s, 168s, and 180s.
MikeLegistine actu quod scripsi?
Never under estimate the internet community's ability to reply to your post with their personal rant about their tangentially related, single occurrence issue.
What I have learned on AR, since 2001:
1. The proper answer to: Where is the best place in town to get a steak dinner? is…You should go to Mel's Diner and get the fried chicken.
2. Big game animals can tell the difference between .015 of an inch in diameter, 15 grains of bullet weight, and 150 fps.
3. There is a difference in the performance of two identical projectiles launched at the same velocity if they came from different cartridges.
4. While a double rifle is the perfect DGR, every 375HH bolt gun needs to be modified to carry at least 5 down.
5. While a floor plate and detachable box magazine both use a mechanical latch, only the floor plate latch is reliable. Disregard the fact that every modern military rifle uses a detachable box magazine.
6. The Remington 700 is unreliable regardless of the fact it is the basis of the USMC M40 sniper rifle for 40+ years with no changes to the receiver or extractor and is the choice of more military and law enforcement sniper units than any other rifle.
7. PF actions are not suitable for a DGR and it is irrelevant that the M1, M14, M16, & AK47 which were designed for hunting men that can shoot back are all PF actions.
8. 95 deg F in Africa is different than 95 deg F in TX or CA and that is why you must worry about ammunition temperature in Africa (even though most safaris take place in winter) but not in TX or in CA.
9. The size of a ding in a gun's finish doesn't matter, what matters is whether it’s a safe ding or not.
10. 1 in a row is a trend, 2 in a row is statistically significant, and 3 in a row is an irrefutable fact.
11. Never buy a WSM or RCM cartridge for a safari rifle or your go to rifle in the USA because if they lose your ammo you can't find replacement ammo but don't worry 280 Rem, 338-06, 35 Whelen, and all Weatherby cartridges abound in Africa and back country stores.
12. A well hit animal can run 75 yds. in the open and suddenly drop with no initial blood trail, but the one I shot from 200 yds. away that ran 10 yds. and disappeared into a thicket and was not found was lost because the bullet penciled thru. I am 100% certain of this even though I have no physical evidence.
13. A 300 Win Mag is a 500 yard elk cartridge but a 308 Win is not a 300 yard elk cartridge even though the same bullet is travelling at the same velocity at those respective distances.
26 May 2018, 06:41
B L O'ConnorI'm so old I can remember when Winchester and Remington vied for the better combo combination with their .243 and .244, respectively. Winchester leaned towards deer and slightly away from varmints, and Remington leaned towards varmints and slightly away from deer.
If I remember correctly, Winchester used a 1:10 twist to accommodate heavier (=generally longer) bullets more suitable for deer, and Remington used a 1:12 twist to optimize for lighter (=generally shorter) bullets for varmints.
Winchester won, Remington lost. And, if I remember correctly, Remington tried to recover by renaming their cartridge "6mm Remington" which was really a rifle chambered for the .244 cartridge but sold with a 1:10 twist. But by that time, game over, man.
29 May 2018, 06:24
AtkinsonI sorta agree with Wasbeeman, the right tool for the right job always beats a compromise, although I have not always practiced that.
Ray Atkinson
Atkinson Hunting Adventures
10 Ward Lane,
Filer, Idaho, 83328
208-731-4120
rayatkinsonhunting@gmail.com
29 May 2018, 07:33
NONAGONAGINTake your pick of ANY of the smaller cals, a light bullet and heavy bullet work up a load for both and NOTE the scope settings so you can return to them...I have NEVER found a light /heavy bullet that shoots to the same POI at the same scope setting...some
MIGHT be close but odds are not.
My pick would be the 25-06 or in todays world a WSM cased 6mm,25 or 6.5. I've had several over the last 60 years or so, shot a lot of sage rats, pot-guts, ground hogs with the 75 gr V-Max, and deer/everything else with the 100 gr Nosler BT and 120 gr Hornady HP...probably would go to the 110 gr Horns/Noslers when I run out of the other fodder. Amazing what a killer the 100 gr BT is on ANYTHING.
Use the right bullet and the 223 ain't bad for what you're talking about...35 gr V-max to 60 gr Nosler Part...each killed whatever I pointed at. The list goes on and on as EVERYONE has a favorite. Right tool for the right job??? Who'es to say which is what or even if it IS a compromise??? But having at least two rifles, one for big and one for small sounds better to me...you can NEVER have enough shooters.
Good hunting
29 May 2018, 08:06
B L O'Connorquote:
Originally posted by Atkinson:
I sorta agree with Wasbeeman, the right tool for the right job always beats a compromise, I shoot a 22 Hornet, 222 Rem, 6X45, and as 250 Savage all of which work on both large and small..but I really want a 22-250 for a pure varmint gun, and a heck of a deer killer! and my deer guns are larger..
WRT Ray, I agree, sorta.
WRT deer and varmints, I'd opt for a "duo" caliber only if — for whatever reason — I were limited to one rifle only. (If I remember the marketing strategy of Remington and Winchester from back then, that was their selling "hook," which made sense to me then: practice shooting varmints with the same rifle you'll be carrying for deer and you'll be better at hitting both and become so with minimal expense.)
Otherwise, I'd go for the calibers that I believed were best for each. Overall, then, I'd agree with Wassbeeman and you.
29 May 2018, 09:17
wasbeemanEven with a 243 or 260, I wouldn't want to lay down and shoot a couple hundred Pdogs. Maybe walking around shooting a couple or three groundhogs might be different.
Aim for the exit hole
In parts of western Pennsylvania the 22 Hornet was considered a crossover caliber when it was introduced. I remember meeting people who used it for both.
TomP
Our country, right or wrong. When right, to be kept right, when wrong to be put right.
Carl Schurz (1829 - 1906)
29 May 2018, 22:53
bartschequote:
Originally posted by wasbeeman:
Even with a 243 or 260, I wouldn't want to lay down and shoot a couple hundred Pdogs. Maybe walking around shooting a couple or three groundhogs might be different.
Hmmmm! At 82 I must admit you've given me something to think about.
roger
Old age is a high price to pay for maturity!!! Some never pay and some pay and never reap the reward. Wisdom comes with age! Sometimes age comes alone..
29 May 2018, 23:13
NONAGONAGINMaybe I should toss in my T/C Encore 22-243 Midd...it shoots the 70 gr Sp SSP great about 3250-3300 fs and the 35 Vmax almost 4400 fs...of course I don't load it that high...4000 is fast enough and bullet twice as heavy as my 17 FB...no deer but several 'yotes, but I still like a 35 cal or larger for most "eatable" game...I like to eat right up to the hole and the small cals can ruin a lot of good eating... depending.
Besides a 200-250 gr bullet isn't all that bad at taking down sageratz...or other vermin...and keeps you cognizant of recoil.
Good Hunting
30 May 2018, 06:11
PalidunFor me my varmints are whatever gives my chickens hell so I shoot a loaded down 22-250 or 223 in the daytime and a 17HMR after dark to ease up on the noise. Otherwise the only varmint I actually hunt is the coyote and anything from a 30-06 down is good for called or opportunity shots at coyotes. So buy at least two rifles, a good deer rifle and a varmint rifle for what your going to hunt. Actually you have a possible 5 rifle buys, who needs one that will do it all?
I own three 243 Win rifles that I've been reloading for about 35 years and none of them will shoot any varmint bullets that I've tried, to any usefully similar point of impact of any big game bullet that I've used.
Frank
"I don't know what there is about buffalo that frightens me so.....He looks like he hates you personally. He looks like you owe him money."
- Robert Ruark, Horn of the Hunter, 1953
NRA Life, SAF Life, CRPA Life, DRSS lite
30 May 2018, 19:14
carpetman1Some varmints you just get a few shots--coyotes and foxes for example. For this, .243 or even a 30-06 is fine. Prairie dogs and jackrabbits you get bunches of shots. Even a .243 is more than I want for this. I use to shoot jackrabbits with a guy that lived with a woman that had 55 sections of land. Some nights we shot 100 jacks. I used a .22 center fire (either my .222 or my 22-250) with cast bullets. This was a 59 grain bullet, velocity around 2000-2200 fps. We were shooting from inside a pickup so blast was a factor. The cast bullets were milder on the ears. They would reach out as far as we could get a good spotlight on them. I considered it the ideal choice. I have been involved with taking several youth deer hunting. I have seen it many times that a 55 grain cup and core bullet, placed right from either a .222 or .223 you have a dead deer within a few feet. Many will say use heavy bullet or premium bullet and in MOST cases, this is really just their guess with no actual experience. Before I witnessed this, I would have thought way too light and crippled deer---that hasn't been the case.
01 June 2018, 20:19
AtkinsonGrowing up I had many ranch kid friends in West Texas who used the Rem 722 in 222 caliber for mule deer. The never wounded a deer that I know of and I would have known..Ive shot a number of deer with the 222 and so have my kids and grand kids as will my great grand kids..slip a 60 gr. Hornady HP or SP behind the shoulder and the deer will die quickly if not instantly..Ive culled many does on my familys ranches with the 222 Rem over the years, mostly short range blind shooting.
Even so today I use a 7x57, 308, 30-06 for regular deer hunting..The 22s are for rockchucks, coyotes, and an ocassional doe at 100 yards from a blind to a feeder, or out the pickup window with a head shots for meat or during a cull wherein all the meat goes to charity. The cull is a combination of about 10 neighboring ranches in Texas. Feeds a lot of kids..Each ranch donates about 100 does.
Ray Atkinson
Atkinson Hunting Adventures
10 Ward Lane,
Filer, Idaho, 83328
208-731-4120
rayatkinsonhunting@gmail.com
We're limited to 80gr and below bullets for varmint hunting here, so I have separate Varmint and Deer rifles.
07 June 2018, 02:53
QuintusTake your .243 and load 85 grain Sierra HPBT Gamekings and shoot both with the same bullet. Cheap and accurate enough for lots of long range varmint work and a deer killer second to none. It will shoot to the same POI whether you are shooting at deer or varmints, or even antelope.
07 June 2018, 16:48
alleyyooperWhile I use my 220 Swift for most coyote hunting there are days a bit to windy for my liking to shoot the 220 swift.
When those days happen I reach for my 243. It is a great deer rifle, dust a crow and drops coyotes where they stand.
As stated above use Serra 85gr. HPBT game kings in the 243 and have a great Vermint and deer rifle and use the same bullet.
Since we don't have PD here in Michigan I am aware of I would consider them nothing more that pest.
Al
Garden View Apiaries where the view is as sweet as the honey.
07 June 2018, 20:43
AtkinsonLimited to a 80 gr. bullet for varmints, that's just WRONG!! Biebs you need to be sure and vote those idiots out of office!!
Ray Atkinson
Atkinson Hunting Adventures
10 Ward Lane,
Filer, Idaho, 83328
208-731-4120
rayatkinsonhunting@gmail.com
07 June 2018, 23:33
bartschequote:
Originally posted by Atkinson:
Limited to a 80 gr. bullet for varmints, that's just WRONG!! Biebs you need to be sure and vote those idiots out of office!!
New Jersey!!!!
roger
Old age is a high price to pay for maturity!!! Some never pay and some pay and never reap the reward. Wisdom comes with age! Sometimes age comes alone..
08 June 2018, 18:12
snowmanI have a 257 Roberts Ackley Imp that shoots light and heavier (up to 115 gr) into little ting groups, If I could only have 1 rifle to shoot varmits and deer I'm sure I would manage. With 75 or 80 gr bullets recoil is negligible so yes I could shoot several boxes of ammo in a morning. Even with 115 Partitions there isn't much recoil. However since the 25 cal has again fallen into disfavor with many, amd you need a 6.5 to be in style. A 260 is a very useful caliber. You can neck down 308 brass in a pinch (being able to use cheap military brass is never a bad thing). With lighter than normal bullets such as the V-max varmit loads with almost no recoil are easy. The ability to shoot heavier bullets at deer is a no brainer. The 260 may be the best cross over caliber out there.
quote:
Originally posted by mdstewart:
In Georgia and Tennessee where I mostly hunt, it is illegal to hunt big game with anything less than a .240 caliber.
According to the Tennessee Wildlife Resources Agency web site, "Rifles and handguns using centerfire ammunition " are legal for deer, bear and elk in Tennessee. I have taken deer with both the .22=250 and the .22 Savage High Power, but prefer something heavier. I consider the .250-3000 an excellent all-around choice.
09 June 2018, 04:05
swampshooterI have a friend that shoots deer and varmints with an 87 gr. Hornady from his 243. Works for him. He is an excellent shot though. F-Class and PRS competitor.
velocity is like a new car, always losing value.
BC is like diamonds, holding value forever.
11 June 2018, 00:42
Palladin8Neither one of my 243s will shoot to the same POI with lighter or heavier bullets. Several inches shifts between the lighter and heavier bullets.
My 25-06 will stack both lighter 75gr and the heavier 117 within an inch of each other. I think it might have to do with the heavy barrel.
I haven't tried anything lighter than 120gr in my 6.5x55 but there is a difference with the 120s and the 140s. Enough that I need to re-zero.
14 June 2018, 21:17
AtkinsonMDstewart,
You have a PM, if the poster passes on the Sako clip model you have..I would be interested.
Ray Atkinson
Atkinson Hunting Adventures
10 Ward Lane,
Filer, Idaho, 83328
208-731-4120
rayatkinsonhunting@gmail.com
16 June 2018, 23:44
AndynMeAmen to the 243 with the 85gr sierra game king. One of the best dual purpose combos IMO.
19 June 2018, 22:45
DannoBooneA Rem700 in .25-06 I had in the '60's shot Hornady 75gr HP's and 100gr SP's
to the same trajectory at 3300fps and 3100fps respectively. Both loads had
nearly identical POI's as well. At the time, Hornady had loads for both using
IMR4895 but I do not recall the grain weight.
To this day, I still mourn for that rifle after going on hard times and
having to sell it to feed my family.
20 June 2018, 18:27
A.J. Hydellquote:
Originally posted by DannoBoone:
* * * To this day, I still mourn for that rifle after going on hard times and
having to sell it to feed my family.
Good gawd, dude!
Never sell a good-shootin' rifle.
Sell the wife or your kid first! Win/Win right there.
You get to keep the rifle, and there's one less mouth to feed, or hear bitchin' and whining from!
Word to the wise.
All The Best ...
21 June 2018, 03:06
Snellstromquote:
Originally posted by AndynMe:
Amen to the 243 with the 85gr sierra game king. One of the best dual purpose combos IMO.
My sons .243 shoots the 85 grain Sierra's into 5 shot .75" groups and shoots 90 grain Speer Deep Shock Bonded bullets into 1" groups. When the 90 grain bullets are sighted in 1.5" hi at 100 the 85's shoot 1" higher.
Not a bad combo for coyotes and deer with either or both bullets.
My Favorite dual purpose cartridge is the 6mm Rem. Though the .243 seems to work just about as well.
Aut vincere aut mori
27 June 2018, 04:03
lawndartThese days there are enough longer bullets that any medium to high powered cartridge in 6mm benefits from a 1:8 twist.
01 July 2018, 19:20
tjrobertsif you use QD rings switching out scopes is no problem. I wouldcheck my Zero, but it will likly be good,...tj3006
