I am doing some research. Anybody happen to know what issue(s) of Guns and Ammo that Bob Hutton reported on this cartridge?

Thanks.

When you neck a 378 WBY down to .22 caliber, do you reckon there might be "issues?"

"Ackley intentionally loaded and destroyed a number of rifles and documented the charges required for destruction."

Nothing more fun that blowing up guns, eh?


MM

I think a .378 Weatherby itself is just plain nuts,
over the top...only if Jurrasic Park came alive with dinosaurs again...maybe...
Anyone can go to extremes...but does it make sense?
Kills at both ends!
white bison

I got a set of reamers! Mine was modified a little, I went with a std 35-degree shoulder I think. I'll measure them and get back to you.

Rich
DRSS

Well I don't know which magazine issues this cartridge appeared in but I would like to hear more about the cartridge.

Details anyone?

QuickLOAD predicts that even H-50BMG is too fast for 40 gn bullets, one having to reduce the charge to less than a full case. It strikes me as a rather silly design.

quote:

Originally posted by asdf:
QuickLOAD predicts that even H-50BMG is too fast for 40 gn bullets, one having to reduce the charge to less than a full case. It strikes me as a rather silly design.

I'm sure this "cartridge" started out as a joke-somewhat in the same category as a .50 BMG case necked down to fire phonograph needles.

(For all you youngsters out there: A phonograph was a late 19th - early 20th-century mechanical device for reproducing sounds which used a needle riding in a wavy track on a cylinder or wax platter. The needle was hooked to a diaphragm which vibrated according to the movement of the needle, causing sound to emanate from the diaphgragm into the environment through the horn (phonograph with horn shown below). The sound was originally embossed in the wax of the cylinder, using a device similar to the phonograph but used in reverse, in which a vibrating needle was used to make the track on the wax.

The 2 things which I recall about this cartridge were that it had a barrel life in the single digits, and was possibly a NASA project initially.

quote:

Originally posted by asdf:
QuickLOAD predicts that even H-50BMG is too fast for 40 gn bullets, one having to reduce the charge to less than a full case. It strikes me as a rather silly design.

Could you use it with a 90 grain bullet?

The Eargesplitten was not a joke or a NASA project. It was simply an experiment to see how fast a 22 caliber bullet could be driven out of a conventional rifle. It was never intended to be tested for accuracy or expected that a barrel would last for more than a few rounds.

Purely experimental.

Ray

Again guys just wanted to know if any of you knew what issue of Guns & Ammo that Bob Hutton reported on this cartridge in.

I had heard the term "Eargesplitten Loudenboomer" but had no idea that this was a real cartridge... GEEZ.... I've got a 338-378 and that is overbore enough... Man, a 22 cal in a 378 case..............

What kinda of velocities did they ever get out of this thing?? I'm imagining they had to be using some seriously stout bullets to handle it...

Ken....

quote:

The Eargesplitten was not a joke or a NASA project. It was simply an experiment to see how fast a 22 caliber bullet could be driven out of a conventional rifle. It was never intended to be tested for accuracy or expected that a barrel would last for more than a few rounds.

Well, perhaps it was not INTENDED as a joke...... according to Ackley's info, a 50-grain bullet was used, and the max. vel. he lists is 4600 FPS with 105 grains of H570 powder. Perhaps they could have gotten more speed out of a .22-cal. air-rifle pellet or round ball.........

quote:

Could you use it with a 90 grain bullet?

If H-50BMG is too fast for 40 gn bullets, it will certainly be far too fast for 90 gn bullets.

I don't think there are many (any?) canister powders slower than this one. The QL database shows no canister powder appreciably slower. There are a couple of powders in its database labeled "test only" which are slower. One is an older 7-perf extruded job, like they use in cannons. QL shows it being too slow for the 90 gn bullets in the Eargesplitten. So, if you can figure out which arsenal gets a regular shipment of similar stuff, you're in good shape.

For what it's worth, QL is predicing a muzzle pressure in a 28" barrel as being over 35 ksi.

El Deguello, did Ackley state what barrel length was used? QL can't get that many fps from a 50 gn bullet. I assumed a 130 gn empty case and a 28" barrel. I've noticed before that QL seems to underpredict the hyper velocity cartridges. I'm not sure the software was calibrated for such odd-ball cartridges.

1964 IIRC. I sat with Bob Forker at the Hodgdon's 50th Anniversary Dinner at the SHOT Show. He told me that it was developed with NASA to test the impact of meterorites on the space program. They got just over 7000fps with a 3Xgr steel pellet. The gentleman on his right suggested that it was a bit of a stretch, until I pulled two dummy rounds loaded with the JLK 80gr VLD bullets out of my jacket pocket and showed them off. 125-200 rounds per Savage 112 converted single shot 223 (to get the 1:9" twist) per 26" barrel. You can get 5000+fps out of the old Nosler solid base 60gr bullets. We were shooting a nearly full case of H870 at the end I think.

Rich
DRSS

I do not believe it was ever "published" in Guns and Ammo.

Material was published on the Eargesplitten Loudenboomer by P.O. Ackley. Bob Hutton, who helped Ackley develop the cartridge, at that time worked for Guns and Ammo, but I can't ever remember G&A publishing anything on it in terms of a full length article.

Barstooler

quote:

Originally posted by Idaho Sharpshooter:
1964 IIRC. I sat with Bob Forker at the Hodgdon's 50th Anniversary Dinner at the SHOT Show. He told me that it was developed with NASA to test the impact of meterorites on the space program. They got just over 7000fps with a 3Xgr steel pellet. The gentleman on his right suggested that it was a bit of a stretch, until I pulled two dummy rounds loaded with the JLK 80gr VLD bullets out of my jacket pocket and showed them off. 125-200 rounds per Savage 112 converted single shot 223 (to get the 1:9" twist) per 26" barrel. You can get 5000+fps out of the old Nosler solid base 60gr bullets. We were shooting a nearly full case of H870 at the end I think.

Rich
DRSS

That sounds like it would fragment deer!!! If 3500 blows up fat groundhogs 5000-7000 should in theory fragment small deer!!!

quote:

Originally posted by Idaho Sharpshooter:
1964 IIRC. I sat with Bob Forker at the Hodgdon's 50th Anniversary Dinner at the SHOT Show. He told me that it was developed with NASA to test the impact of meterorites on the space program. They got just over 7000fps with a 3Xgr steel pellet. The gentleman on his right suggested that it was a bit of a stretch, until I pulled two dummy rounds loaded with the JLK 80gr VLD bullets out of my jacket pocket and showed them off. 125-200 rounds per Savage 112 converted single shot 223 (to get the 1:9" twist) per 26" barrel. You can get 5000+fps out of the old Nosler solid base 60gr bullets. We were shooting a nearly full case of H870 at the end I think.

Rich
DRSS

Thank you Rich....

Hehe..that thing looks like a hand grenade with a touch hole rather than a rifle cartridge.
Pressures must be impressive.

Over 500 rounds total out of four barrels. The action went back to Savage and their engineers magnafluxed it to check for issues. None found, and the action was fitted with a 7mm Rem Mag and returned to me. I rechambered to 7STW, and the action has held up for about 450 rounds; mostly 140gr Nosler BT's. I'll have to figure out how to post, and send a picture of the original 223, std mag, and the 378 bolt heads...paper thin ring.

Rich
DRSS

Why did I do it, while the other kids in HS were reading Playboy; I had True and Argosy, and G&A...Ackley taught me bad habits.

I thought I read somewhere that modern gunpowder can only burn and expand at around 5500fps. If this is true then I can't see how they could have produced 7000+fps.

quote:

Originally posted by reelman:
I thought I read somewhere that modern gunpowder can only burn and expand at around 5500fps. If this is true then I can't see how they could have produced 7000+fps.

something to do with the phase of the moon i bet.

contact Guns&Ammo for a reprint of the article.

Rich
DRSS

P.O. Ackley hisself described the Eargesplitten in his Handbook and it's strange that he said nothing about the Govt ever being involved in it's development. He also said that he only tried a couple of loads before shipping the gun off to Hutton and he expected his would be exceeded by quite a bit.

I have heard the same thing that "reelman" mentioned. Gas from burning rifle powder can only expand at a certain velocity and to move a bullet faster you have to resort to other things such as squeeze bores, rockets, etc. Each time I ask for someone to explain it to me I get NO RESPONSE. It looks like "reelman" is getting the same reaction.

So, c'mon guys, is it true or not???

Ray

Cheechako, I've heard of the gas velocity too, but heard it being higher. I can't for the life of me remember where.

I dunno, never got past 5100fps with anything myself...but a spherical pellet would likely go faster. Weatherby isn't much on providing details.

Rich
DRSS

PS: it takes six step- down neck bushings in the set of forming dies Neil Jones at CPS made for me. It will be much easier this time, starting with 30-378 Wbee cases will eliminate about half the work.

In the back of the 9th edition of "Cartridges of the World" there is an article titles "There is no Substitute for Cubic Inches" by Bob Forker. Here is an excerpt

"Now for the ridiculous. In the 1960's I worked with the late Bob Hutton on the 22-378, which we called the Eargeshplitten Loudenboomer. As a practical cartridge, this was a ballistic joke, but it pushed a 15 grain solid bullet at 6000 fps. Pressures were not measured, but those were by no means mild. This 130 grain capacity case would have pushed a 55 grain bullet to about 4350 fps at 65,000 psi. In this instance, increasing usable capacity a whopping 210 percent above the 22-284 resulted in a potential velocity increase of about 474 fps, which represents an energy increase of about 25 percent.
Our test barrel lasted about eight shots. This absurd cartridge continues to get far more press than it deserves, but it was a fun project"

maybe, but it was sure fun to build one and test it out! I think I am going to do another one in the next couple months...

Rich
DRSS

My February 1999 Precision shooting magazine has an article on the 22-378, is this the same story you are speaking of Idaho Sharpshooter??
Cdog.

cdog,

yes it is....

Gene Solyntjes and I did the test work, and Gene wrote it up for PS. I couldn't find the article. Could you post the velocity data here for these fine folks?
thanks in advance

Rich
DRSS

I would be happy to post the data.....
vv175-80gr sierra
85gr-3519
90gr-3754
95gr-3893

vv170-55gr sierra
95gr-3904
100gr-3978
103.7gr-4188
107.7gr-4276

vv170-40gr ballistic tip
100gr-4559
108gr-4818
118gr(warm)5079

h5010-80gr sierra
85gr-3326
90gr-3524

h870-80gr sierra
85gr-3446

I hope this helps. Also the article was talking about a barrel treatment called "j-tex"? It said the barrel without the treatment was shot out after 94 rounds!!!
If you have any more questions about the article, sing out.
Cdog.

I already know that my brother's factory produced weatherby Mk5 in 30-378wby is "Rediculous"

a whole 35fps faster with a 180gr bullet and 10grains MORE propellant than the (already rediculous) 87gr charge of RL22 used in a 300RUM.

Some people say you don't "need" premium bullets... well,
IMO in the 30-378Wby anything other than premium bullets is beyond absurd.... just like the cartridge they are being loaded into.

The funny thing is it is well doccumented that the 30-378 WAS the result of a US Army test program, they REQUESTED it from Weatherby to launch Zinc projectiles, eventually velocities reached >6000fps, though with what I have no idea...

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