I wonder how your case would work with 33 caliber bullets, Winchester had problems with 33 caliber bullets in their 325 WSM case. They stayed with the 8mm bullets because the 33 bullets had to be seated to deep in the case thus reducing velocity. I like your wildcat case, it has me thinking of the possible options. Nice job!

kctgb,

Welcome to AR. I think the case would work well with any caliber up to 9.3. After that, I think case capacity is a issue. Testing has come along, with the help of sharps4590, I have it shooting close to the other big 8s (325 WSM, 8x68, and 8mm Rem.). The real test will come when a true Mauser is built up, which a 1935 Brazilian Mauser is with James Anderson now. It functions extremely well in my Model 70 Classic prototype, so the jury is still kind of out on my original thoughts on this journey. Thanks and again welcome to AR.

I'm thinking I like the idea of a magnum 30 caliber that fits well in a standard 98 action without much modifications. I am interested to see your progress, keep us informed.

8x57 magnum is the 325 Win. if you want a magnum case, or the 8x57 IMP. if you want the 30-06 case and an extra round in the box.

Sorry for no updates lately, but have been busy launching a new business. I know the cartridge offers nothing new ballistically, as the project was always about functioning in the Model 98. In the prototype (Model 70 Classic), to me, functions fantastic. The action has no feeding work, yet it will feed empty hulls as fast as you can cycle the bolt, with no jams. I have no other rifles that will do that. If things get to normal soon I will try to develop a 220 load. I have a 1935 Brazilian Mauser for the 8x57 Mag and a ZG 47 with James Anderson to start the 9.3 version and another Zg 47 for the 7mm version with Jon Evans. Again nothing new in terms of ballistics, but function seems to be great.

quote:

Originally posted by Atkinson:
8x57 magnum is the 325 Win. if you want a magnum case, or the 8x57 IMP. if you want the 30-06 case and an extra round in the box.

Sort of, except for the 325 WSM cartridge having a 53mm case length...

quote:

Originally posted by kctgb:
I wonder how your case would work with 33 caliber bullets, Winchester had problems with 33 caliber bullets in their 325 WSM case. They stayed with the 8mm bullets because the 33 bullets had to be seated to deep in the case thus reducing velocity. I like your wildcat case, it has me thinking of the possible options. Nice job!

It was purely a marketing decision...

Winchester needed to maintain a 2.860" COAL so that the WSM cartridges could be chambered in the SA Remington, Ruger, and similar actions or completely eliminate this market from their decision making.

The M70 WSM actions with their longer internal length magazines length can easily accommodate a 3.0" COAL; similar actions a bit longer...

Capoward,
Yes, but building a case around a 98 action is sort of new twist, as it's easier to modify a 98 mauser to about any caliber up to and including a .375 H&H and some have even done that with a .416 Rigby..So it seems sorta backwards to me..but if one is enjoying such projects all I can say is more power to you.

The whole idea was that Mauser designed the 98 for the 57mm case. I felt he must have had design features that were specific to the round. I will tell you that the proto type rifle is the best cycling rifle I have. I just designed a case, hoping it functioned with the reliability of a combat round. Performance was going to be similar to other mag rounds, yet I wanted a project that was about feeding and function in a 98. I have been very busy and when things slow down want to get back to the project.

quote:

Originally posted by 3584ELK:
Nicely done- I did not see a mention of whether or not your new creation would clean up an 8x57 chamber, or whether a barrel set back is needed.

quote:

Originally posted by ozark hunter:
358ELK
I think that is a bit above my pay grade. I would contact Dave Manson(Dave Manson Precision Reamers at 810-953-0732) to be sure. I didn't consider that when I designed the round. Things are progressing though. Feeding is really great in the unaltered Model 70 Classic. And a big thanks to Sharps4590 for range help today. Hope to get the bugs out and have more load data soon.

If the neck is .320" (8.1mm) or less, it should clean up provided the shoulder angle is 20* or more.

quote:

Originally posted by ozark hunter:
Got out to the range with the chronograph today. I used Hornady 338-06 data for a starting point, as they had loads for IMR 4895, of which I have plenty of. The bullet was a 200 grain Woodleigh PP. I was pretty happy with the results and the data is for three shot averages with each charge.

52 grain IMR 4895 avg. fps 2643
54 grain IMR 4895 avg. fps 2706
56 grain IMR 4895 avg. fps 2746
57 grain IMR 4895 avg. fps 2809
58 grain IMR 4895 avg. fps 2886

I felt that I am close to Max loads and am happy with the velocity. So far so good.

Try Norma MRP. It will make equal or better Mv with less pressure.

I glean from what I read that by designing this wildcat case at a length of 57mm. , perform in the Mod. 98 and holding the max OAL TO 3.250" .
There would be a definite advantage in being able to use the longer per weight non leaded bullets if the throating is right. Fun experience ; right???
roger

Lindy2
It has been a lot of work, yet it has been fun as well. Never done anything like this and yet I am pleased with the results so far. I have a friend with a 300 WSM who wishes his fed like mine after seeing the rifle function. Paul Mauser was a pretty good engineer and the 57mm case length was (I think) a special ingredient to his design. I knew I was not doing anything special velocity wise, but wanted a 8mm magnum cartridge with better function in a 98 than the 325 WSM, 8x68, or the emm Rem mag. That's all.

Essentially a short 8 mm/30 Newton, or 8mm /35 Newton.

The original Newtons also were built on Standard length actions.
I have now sold all my Newton's except my 256 Newton.

The bigger calibers were ahead of their time, and under appreciated.
They worked well on the limited game I took with them.

You new round should be a great caliber in standard actions

Yes indeed. All of my research yielded the same conclusion. Even though Mauser didn't design the 57 mm case (the German Commission did) they developed magazines to handle it. I recall reading that there was considerable study dedicated to the proper case head diameter as related to stock width with a staggered magazine. This further related to ease of gripping by the average hand.

quote:

Originally posted by ozark hunter:
The whole idea was that Mauser designed the 98 for the 57mm case. I felt he must have had design features that were specific to the round. I will tell you that the proto type rifle is the best cycling rifle I have. I just designed a case, hoping it functioned with the reliability of a combat round. Performance was going to be similar to other mag rounds, yet I wanted a project that was about feeding and function in a 98. I have been very busy and when things slow down want to get back to the project.

Great project. Even better for revamping previously sporterized 98's with original barrels. I will be watching closely. I am interested in the 6.5, 7 and 30 cal versions - just because.

Keep us posted!

Great and well thought out project IMHO.

The ways that cartridges like 06 and magnums are stuffed into intermediate Mausers have never impressed me so I think it makes a lot of sense.

I had thought of doing one off a rebated head Gibbs but thought better of it.

Only thing I would say is the ZG is longer in the mag box so is possibly straying away from your original criteria?

Finally found some time to work on the project again. I worked on developing a 220 Woodleigh load. I started with Hornady data for the 225 grain 338-06. I was using IMR 4895 and got the following results (started mild and built up with no signs of pressure). Results are from a three shot fps average.

44 grains 2275 fps
46 grains 2347 fps
48 grains 2422 fps
50 grains 2497 fps
52.5 grains 2614 fps
55 grains 2715 fps

I'm happy with the results and I will be hunting the rifle/load this fall. It is right there with the other Big 8's according to the Hornady loads.

Therein lies the fun of wildcatting..a near useless indevor but fun never the less..To me the 8mm/06 or the IMP version is the perfect Mauser 98 conversion using the original barrel..It is efficient and has as much to offer as the great 35 Whelen or 338-06..but on this thread its about wildcats and from that standpoint its very interesting reading....

hunter,

Can you post us a pic of that round that will actually show up?

I think photobucket has things messed up. They were up for the longest time. A lot of pics no longer show up. I will look into it. Started working with Reloader 17 this weekend and things look promising. Got to 2700 fps easily and hopefully get some more range time next weekend and will post results..

Yep photobucket may not recover.

Wanted to see your cartridge.

For reference, my reloads in 8x57
get 2,700 for the 185s
and 2,500 for the 200s.

Ray

Didn't list, but got to 2700 with a 220 Woodleigh. First time using Reloader 17 so I was pretty conservative. I will post results after I get to the range next. I have been very pleased with the results so far. Waiting on the 7 and 9.3 versions to start testing them. Thanks for the interest.

I really like my Kimber Montana in .325 WSM. And I didn't have to use a Chilean 1935 Action to get a short cased magnum 8mm cartridge. Much better uses for that action.

Finally got to get to the range using Reloader 17. Shot a 220 Woodleigh and was very please with the results. Shot three shot groups and velocities are the average.

Reloader 17 Woodleigh 220 gr


56 gr 2615 fps
58 gr 2694 fps
59 gr 2753 fps
59.5 gr 2789 fps
60 gr 2837 fps
61 gr 2854 fps

Had a 60.5 load, but not sure things were right with chronograph. Reset it for the final group, No signs of pressure until the 61 gr charge and it was a very slight tension of the bolt lift. Will work on an accurate load, hopefully at about 60.5 grains of Reloader 17. Will update when I settle on the load for hunting season.

quote:

Originally posted by ozark hunter:
Finally got to get to the range using Reloader 17. Shot a 220 Woodleigh and was very please with the results. Shot three shot groups and velocities are the average.

Reloader 17 Woodleigh 220 gr


56 gr 2615 fps
58 gr 2694 fps
59 gr 2753 fps
59.5 gr 2789 fps
60 gr 2837 fps
61 gr 2854 fps

Had a 60.5 load, but not sure things were right with chronograph. Reset it for the final group, No signs of pressure until the 61 gr charge and it was a very slight tension of the bolt lift. Will work on an accurate load, hopefully at about 60.5 grains of Reloader 17. Will update when I settle on the load for hunting season.

While I get excellent results with RL 17 in the 8X57IS case with 200gr bullets, the added capacity of the 8mm-06 A.I. brings Norma MRP to the game. It will outperform RL-17 at lower pressure.

It wouldn't surprise me if you had similar results given the added case capacity and 220gr bullets.

I don't care for fat cases in a 98 Mauser, so my favorite conversion was the 8mm/06 Ackley IMP., simple conversion and that caliber kills like a magnum 30 or 338-06 IMP...My 8x57 has a oversize chamber in the rear of the case..Im trying to come up with something that's close to a std. 8mm/06 or IMP version..so I see the 9.3x62 as the best option as it has a larger base than the 06 case, so that sounds like a fit to my problem?? and would be a dandy 8.5 lb. elk gun for sure.

Ray,

My case is not based on a 404, but the 375 Ruger. Not much different than putting a 7 mag or 338 in a Mauser. Ch4d made some forming dies that make case forming very easy. Just waiting for deer season to try it out, then off to Tholo in May to really try it out if I feel a wildcat will travel in Africa.

quote:

Originally posted by Atkinson:
I don't care for fat cases in a 98 Mauser, so my favorite conversion was the 8mm/06 Ackley IMP., simple conversion and that caliber kills like a magnum 30 or 338-06 IMP...My 8x57 has a oversize chamber in the rear of the case..Im trying to come up with something that's close to a std. 8mm/06 or IMP version..so I see the 9.3x62 as the best option as it has a larger base than the 06 case, so that sounds like a fit to my problem?? and would be a dandy 8.5 lb. elk gun for sure.

8x68 would solve that problem. A dandy cartridge.

Got to use the 8x57 mag today for Missouri deer season. Got an 8 point buck at about 80 yards. Had settled on a load of 60 grains of RL 17 and a 220 Woodleigh bullet (2835 fps). Work really well. Heart lung shot, destroyed the lungs and the bottom half of the heart. It has been a project in the works for two years now and to have it all come together is pretty rewarding. I have the 7 and 6.5 in the works. Will update in the future on the 8 and others if there is interest. I'm off to Tholo in May to test the 8 further. Special thanks to James Anderson, Dave Manson, Clyde Moore, Ch4d,
Sharps4590 and all those who contributed.

Ozark Hunter,
Your reasoning for such a caliber makes perfect since, the 98 was designed around the 8x57, 7x57. thus any 30-06 based case works as well. Your case seems to be working fine..I think your on to something..

Today, I am the owner of two Brno mod. 21s, one is a 8x57 and the other a 8x60..My solution to the chamber in the 8x57 was addressed by sending RCBS three fired cases and they opened the base by beveling it and all is well, no need to rechamber a collector rifle..Thanks RCBS..

The 8x60 is only a tad better than the 8x57, but its a nice hunting rifle, and close to collectable. It originally had claw mounts on it, but modified with a filler and drilled and tapped for modern bases..I installed Talley bases and need a set of high rings or turn down the bolt handle. My try med. bases before I turn down the bolt handle..The 8x60 is from a practical standpoint a twin to the 338-06 as it has a long throat and magazine from the factory as all Brno mod. 21 and 22 have.

Tried imgur and got a photo of the 8x57 Mag. The prototype is now a complete rifle.

Since I've got Imgur working I'm posting a reference picture of the 7mm. 8mm, and 9.3 versions of the my wildcat next to a 416 Ruger as a parent case comparison.

The 8x57 magnum sounds like a sweet little hunting round. Almost a duplicate of the 338 RCM. No flies on it, though most use the 338WM.

It worked really well this past deer season. The difference from the 338 RCM is that I didn't try to make it a short action round. I like to use heavy bullets and they don't have to be seated so deep to take up powder space. It feeds great as well.

Any updates here? Following closely

just say moe,

Waiting. I have deposits in with a couple of gunsmiths to produce Mauser 98 versions to complete the journey. Have settled on a load for the 8mm version and will take it elk hunting this fall. The 7mm is being tweaked and I just got dies for the 9.3 version. I did some beginning loads for it this weekend and I think it will run right at 9.3x64 performance. It might become my favorite of the family. I hope that helps and waiting has been the biggest obstacle in getting things accomplished. If you want to know any thing specific, drop me a pm. Thanks.

Sweden bought M98k from germany and rechamered them in 8mm m32(8*63) m40 light panzer rifle, the cartridge had a 4900j ME with a 250gr/16,2g bullet and 760m/s. The cartridge were primerly used as a heavy machinegun cartridge. The soldiers did like the recoil.


https://sv.wikipedia.org/wiki/...63mm_-_AM.006920.jpg

I just got back from an elk hunt in WY. The 8x57 magnum worked great. Got a quartering away shot at about 250-300 yards and he took one step and then rolled down hill. The 220 Woodleigh at 2750 fps did not exit. We were in grizzly country and did not spend time examining the bullet trauma. It is a fine cartridge.