458 RUM, what do you think?

19 November 2003, 14:48

I just picked up a Ruger Stainless #1 in 458 Lott and have been playing around with it a little.

It has proven easy to drive the 500 gr Hornady SP to +2300 fps with several different loads and all are shooting under an inch at 50 yards with iron sights.

As good as it has been performing, a 500 gr .458" bullet at an honest 2400 fps really catches my attention. Blowing the Lott out would get very close to that but a 458 RUM would do it with very comfortable pressures and with cases that are cheap and easy to form.

What do you guys think of this cailber on the RUM case. What is your experience with the 500 gr pills at 2400 fps?

Thanks for your thoughts!

Good Shooting!!!

50

19 November 2003, 15:16

browningguy

Sounds like you need a 450 Watts, or Ackley, or Dakota, or A-Square. All these wildcat/proprietary rounds seem to meet your needs. It should also be a lot cheaper than having a custom reamer and custom dies made up.

500 grains at 2400 FPS should be pretty effective (and possibly painfull)whichever way you go.

19 November 2003, 15:31

smallfry

the ackley and watts ARE NOT good alternative *they* are nothing much but a 458 lott. Id say a 460 wby or a 450 rigby... plenty plenty of brass. Too me the 460 is a slightly overlooked cartridge, and I think people are just plain intimidated by it, but who says you have to be shooting a 500gr at 2600?

19 November 2003, 15:32

jeffeosso

It sure would be a loudenboomer.....

and, if you are willing to use factory dies and brass, it's BALLISTICLY the same as teh 450 dakota, and about the same capacity.

great idea, though... much cheaper brass if you could use the rum

jeffe

20 November 2003, 06:34

Bwana-be

Sorry, Jeffe, nowhere near the Dakota.
This would basically be the G&H, what was it - 460 G&G Mag? This and the Canadian mag are built on the Jeffery case, of which the RUM is a "proprietary clone." I think the 2400 fps would not be wuite as "honest" as you might like. Figure more like an honest 2350+.
I'd go with one of the Rigby-based rounds, like the 450 Rigby, 450 Dakota, 460 Weatherby.
Those suckers will put you on the other side of 2400 before their noses start to grow, and by that time yours is starting to bleed, so no worries!

20 November 2003, 06:36

Bwana-be

BTW, how do you "blow the Lott out?" Isn't it a straight-wall?

20 November 2003, 06:50

jeffeosso

bb,
i think the dakota is like 130 or 135 grains of water...

and the 375 rum is 115...
should be atleast 125 grains....

someone run a rum through a 458 die and tell us

jeffe

20 November 2003, 07:15

Fiftydriver

Bwana-be,

The Lott really is not a straight wall case as one would look at say the 454 or 444 Marlin. It in fact has quite a bit of taper.

Remember, this is also the same case that is used for the 470 Capstick so there is room to blow out the case.

THe 450 Ackley is a blown out or should I say improved 458 Lott but on the full length 2.850" case instead of the 2.800" of the Lott.

THe Rigby and Dakota rounds along with the Weatherby rounds are great, especially when one wants good performance(2400-2500 fps) with relatively low pressures.

I admit the RUM case will not reach anywhere near the velocities of the Rigby class cases but is that really needed for getting 2400 fps with a 500 gr bullet.

Also, as I am just getting my gunsmithing shop up and running, I would much rather purchase 100 rounds of 357 RUM brass for $50 then to pay $180 for the 416 Rigby or $200 for the WBY case.

Plus, there will be no need to modify the extractor on the #1 using RUM brass, not that that would be a big deal, just another thing to have to do.

Thanks for the input!

Good Shooting!!!

50

21 November 2003, 11:58

WyoJoe

quote:
Originally posted by Fiftydriver:
I just picked up a Ruger Stainless #1 in 458 Lott and have been playing around with it a little.

It has proven easy to drive the 500 gr Hornady SP to +2300 fps with several different loads and all are shooting under an inch at 50 yards with iron sights.

As good as it has been performing, a 500 gr .458" bullet at an honest 2400 fps really catches my attention. Blowing the Lott out would get very close to that but a 458 RUM would do it with very comfortable pressures and with cases that are cheap and easy to form.

What do you guys think of this cailber on the RUM case. What is your experience with the 500 gr pills at 2400 fps?

Thanks for your thoughts!

Good Shooting!!!

50

Try http://www.z-hat.com/ he is already doing it. The last time I was at his web site he was calling it the .450 Ultracat

24 November 2003, 04:50

<KBGuns>

quote:
Originally posted by Bwana-be:
Sorry, Jeffe, nowhere near the Dakota.
This would basically be the G&H, what was it - 460 G&G Mag?

You are thinking .460 Guns & Ammo.

Kristofer

24 November 2003, 05:58

browningguy

Smallfry, I don't own either one but my books show a 450 Watts throwing a 500 gr. SP at 2500 FPS with 98 gr. of IMR 4320.

You're correct on the Ackley, it's a little behind with a 465 gr. Solid at 2400 from the A-Square load and 2395 with 88 gr. of RL12.

The same manual shows the Lott at 2330 with 85 gr. of IMR4320 and 2230 FPS with 79 gr. of 4064 both with a 500 gr. SP. It seems either would have a bit more to offer than a Lott.

24 November 2003, 13:54

Bwana-be

That's Ackley's data.
From what I've read, there's lots of his data that's unattainable.
Did he use a chrono? [Big Grin]

24 November 2003, 14:59

500grains

A single shot cries out for a rimmed case, such as a 450 nitro.

24 November 2003, 15:00

smallfry

browningguy. I own an ackley.
The watts lott, and ackley are all essentialy the same. They are all 375 based cartridges and there is very little room left to play with expanded dimensions through necking/straiting this case. There would be Far more influential factors on max velo within individual rifles then the differences in case dimension of these 3 cases.

25 November 2003, 05:48

griz

I had a #1 in 450 ackley @400fps was possible but pressure was high.The ultra mag case will give 2400-2500fps.It will add atleast 100fps to the lott,just like my 375 ultra will add 125fps to my 375 wby!The 460 is great but i never had great luck with reduced loads.Go with the ultra

25 November 2003, 07:54

Bwana-be

Dakota only makes one cartridge not based on the Jeffery, and that's the 450. Because pressures ran too high for the 2400 they were looking for.
The Canadian mag (458-404) had a suggeted max load of 2350.
You can probably get it to do 2400, but if I were starting from scratch, I wouldn't be looking for the "smallest case that would do it."

25 November 2003, 08:38

Kwan

Evening People

The wheel was invented x million years ago but still everyone will try and put their own stamp on some idea.

The 458 Lott, is a Win Mag on Gatorade!!!
The 450 Rigby !!! is a 460 Weatherby without the shoulder, and it easliy take note easily does the velocities of the 460 as the case capacity is the same !!!

But witht that velocity comes a kicker, and do not tell they do not kick anything pushing over 5500 foot pounds kicks

What you need to look at is which option gives the lowest pressure at that velocity as well

And this is where the rubber meets the road, the 450 RIGBY is the logical choice, big case capacity, avalaibilty etc.

We have come to the conclusion that the 450 Rigby, is just about the perfect combination of capabilty plus affordability plus overall classic calibre

It also helps that I have one of the first in South Africa,

Cheers

08 December 2003, 19:55

<Matt77>

I saw a 450 rigby in Cabela's gun room, it was only 19,995 american dollars. Granted it was nice, but if you really want to step up, stay with e 458 lott, or get yourself a 460. If you really want to play and have the cash, get a 577 or a 585.