Re: 338 Short Mag?

09 December 2004, 18:41

IRONWORKER

Re: 338 Short Mag?

Hey what did you say about my 270 WSM? I'm with in a 100 FPS of the weatherby with no free bore.Whats a 100 F.P.S.?

25 November 2004, 03:25

Hornetfan

Are they ever going to take off?. I am thinking of an Ackleyed short neck. I want a bit more than a 338-06IMP more thump than a 350 Rem mag with better bullets ( spelled better selection) on a short action. Just thinking out loud right now

25 November 2004, 03:31

Lee Martin

Winchester will be releasing the .325 WSM in '05 (.300 WSM necked-up to 8mm). Why they didn't do a .338" is beyond me.

Lee Martin
www.singleactions.com

25 November 2004, 03:37

DaveC

Look at a Lazzeroni 8.59 Galaxy (.338 short mag). The case has a bit more capacity than a WSM case and can better or match the .338 Win with 250 gr or lighter bullets.
http://www.lazzeroni.com/ct_reload_galaxy.htm

25 November 2004, 04:51

BFaucett

Quote:

Winchester will be releasing the .325 WSM in '05 (.300 WSM necked-up to 8mm). Why they didn't do a .338" is beyond me.

Lee Martin
www.singleactions.com

I stumbled across the following and thought I would pass it along.

-Bob F.

Posted by: Dan Johnson at 7:06 PM 11/7/2004
What do you think of Winchester going with the .325 WSM rather than a .338 WSM?

Posted by: Craig Boddington at 7:20 PM 11/7/2004
Dan, I played with the .338 WSM a bit, and there was just no way I could get it up to .338 Win. Mag. velocity. Winchester tried, too, and their judgment (which I think was correct) was that it would be a sure flop if it didn't come very, very close to the "existing" .338. The .325 has no competition. It's also pretty darned fast, and although bullet selection is limited, there are enough good 8mm bullets out there (Swift, Barnes, Hornday, Sierra, Nosler, etc.). I am a big fan of the 8mm Remington Magnum, so I like the .325 WSM. Of course, the risks are obvious: No 8mm cartridge has ever done particularly well in North America, and the 8mm Rem. Mag., a classic example, is barely hanging on. So we'll see!

Taken from:
http://outdoorsbest.zeroforum.com/zerothread?cmd=print&id=273957

03 December 2004, 18:01

prescott

I've always hated anything .323 but the 325 is starting to get my attention as an elk round. People who have wildcated the 8x300 WSM are getting an ease 3,000 at the muzzle with a 220 and that is no small potatoes. It does indeed have lesser recoil than a 338 WM or a RUM and if fitted to a light weight platform would make heap big medicine in the mountains.
Anybody that has owned a short mag knows they feed just fine
and offer the rifleman a great package.
Nothing wrong with the 300 H&H and its velocity yet people knock the 300 WSM which has the same speed as being inadeqate, this is a poor excuse at best.

Would a 325 with a 220 kill wapiti just as effective as a 338 WM?
With over 30 elk under my belt I'll bet my bottom $ it will.
Why wouldnt it?

04 December 2004, 03:38

Bob338

Quote:

People who have wildcated the 8x300 WSM are getting an ease 3,000 at the muzzle with a 220 and that is no small potatoes.

I don't believe this is posssible. You can't even get 3000 fps out of a 210g bullet in a Win Mag which has over 5g more water capacity than any of the short mags. I even doubt you can get 2900 fps without grossly exceeding safe pressures. The several 338/300's I've had maxed out at just over 2800 fps with 225g bullets. There won't be that much diffence in the new case.

I understand they used the 7mm WSM case as the basis for the 325, which is a bit longer in the body than the 300 WSM case. I compared the two cases for water volume and while the 7mm WSM case had a slightly longer body the water volume of both, opened up to a 338 neck, was identical. The slightly smaller caliber with the same weight of bullet isn't going to give you any more velocity. It's all sales hype, not reality.

04 December 2004, 13:56

jbmi

A very good article about the new 325WSM in the January addition of Shooting Times.
They cover why Winchester went with the 8mm instead of the 338, what they said made some sense.

04 December 2004, 17:26

prescott

Bob, I was thinking exactily like you but let this speak for itself. I'm not saying it's right or correct. But the guy is pretty strong about his 8x speed.

http://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbthreads/showflat.php/Cat/0/Number/379270/an/0/page/0/gonew/1#UNREAD

06 December 2004, 13:58

Bob338

Somewhere I read that the one he has was built on a LONG action, long throated, and the bullets seated way out. If he exceeds SAAMI pressures for the basic case it IS likely you can achieve those speeds, but then what is the point? You can go to the long action cartridges since you don't have any reason at all to stay with the short mags. The useable case capacity would then be almost identical to the long magnums that the short magnums are trying to emulate. And if you're of mind to, you can long throat those, stick the bullets way out and exceed the published maximum velocity of those.

The only reason for the existence of the short magnums is to use the short action for weight savings. Other than that you may as well stay with the tried and true longer cartridges.

The WSM in whatever configuration you choose, chambered in any short action IS NOT going to equal the velocity of the big brothers, I don't care how you chamber them.

10 December 2004, 20:20

Hornetfan

I never compared it to a 338Win mag, if I wanted or needed a 338 Win Mag I would build one. I actually compared it to a 350 Rem mag and a 338-06. I asked if it would ever get of the ground. I was thinking whitetail/black bear. I just sold off my last 30-06. I was thinking something a bit larger caliber to replace it.I had something in mind for 30-06 class stuff but use heavier controlled expansion bullets. Bolt throw has nothing to do with it. I hunted for about 12 years with a Ruger#1. If and when I build one it will be on an old junk Remington. Well off to finish my 70hr work week, so I can buy more plastic tipped bullets.

11 December 2004, 02:04

Savage99

Quote:

Somewhere I read that the one he has was built on a LONG action, long throated, and the bullets seated way out. If he exceeds SAAMI pressures for the basic case it IS likely you can achieve those speeds, but then what is the point? You can go to the long action cartridges since you don't have any reason at all to stay with the short mags. The useable case capacity would then be almost identical to the long magnums that the short magnums are trying to emulate. And if you're of mind to, you can long throat those, stick the bullets way out and exceed the published maximum velocity of those.

The only reason for the existence of the short magnums is to use the short action for weight savings. Other than that you may as well stay with the tried and true longer cartridges.

The WSM in whatever configuration you choose, chambered in any short action IS NOT going to equal the velocity of the big brothers, I don't care how you chamber them.

Geting rid of the belt is the reason I prefer the WSM's. As a handloader the benefit is more postitve headspacing and the potential for better accuracy.

As to the 338 WSM a note in www.shortmags says that the SAMMI COL of 2.86" could not be maintained with the current .338 bullets. That may or may not be so but the 8mm WSM is much better marketing anyway.

On a short vrs a standard action I prefer the short but the longs are ok. The magazine capacity does not matter to me as I don't fill it anyway and all short mags have fed very well for me.

11 December 2004, 15:41

prescott

Why Ray's? Its called ergonomics, weight, and bringing the balance of the rifle closer to you to make you a better shot. Especially offhand. Its the difference between a long mag with a 26" barrel and a short mag with a 22" or 23" barrel.
The shorter barrels are efficiant enough for the shorter mags and that's where the shorter powder column make the dif. That can amount to 4" and 5" of rifle and bringing up that difference to the shoulder in my experience makes a difference for me and maybe other's as well.
Is there any killing difference between a 300 WM and a
300 H&H? I'll say no, maybe you can discern a difference,
but I cant The same goes for the 300 WSM (same velocity as the the H&H) or 338 WSM compared to the larger WM's.