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Rimless staightwalls?

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19 February 2004, 17:15
craigster
Rimless staightwalls?
Is there a wildcat out there that (for lack of better description) would resemble a 45ACP super long (2"+/- case length). Or a straight wall based on a shortened 308 or 30-06. The round would head space on the mouth, like 9mm, 30 carb, 45ACP, etc. Bolt face would be .473". If so, any data you might have would be greatly appreciated.
19 February 2004, 18:27
RpR1
Quote:

Is there a wildcat out there that (for lack of better description) would resemble a 45ACP super long (2"+/- case length). Or a straight wall based on a shortened 308 or 30-06. The round would head space on the mouth, like 9mm, 30 carb, 45ACP, etc. Bolt face would be .473". If so, any data you might have would be greatly appreciated.



There is the .450 Magmum Express of which a small amount was made for the producers of the revolver North American Arms before the company was sold and the project dropped, after which one of the new owners eventually destroyed all the tooling and unsold cartridges, or so one report said.
It is based on a cut-off .308 and is slightly longer than a .454 Casull.
I have both the revolver and two boxes of the ammunintion.
Bob
20 February 2004, 01:03
Roadtrash
I'm not familiar with this round can you give me some details such as velocity, etc? Sounds like it might be a good round to build.
Roadtrash
20 February 2004, 02:28
Kingfisher
The 44 Automag is pretty much what you're talking about. A cut down 308 Winchester using 44 cal. bullets.
20 February 2004, 02:33
Lee Martin
Quote:

Quote:

Is there a wildcat out there that (for lack of better description) would resemble a 45ACP super long (2"+/- case length). Or a straight wall based on a shortened 308 or 30-06. The round would head space on the mouth, like 9mm, 30 carb, 45ACP, etc. Bolt face would be .473". If so, any data you might have would be greatly appreciated.



There is the .450 Magmum Express of which a small amount was made for the producers of the revolver North American Arms before the company was sold and the project dropped, after which one of the new owners eventually destroyed all the tooling and unsold cartridges, or so one report said.
It is based on a cut-off .308 and is slightly longer than a .454 Casull.
I have both the revolver and two boxes of the ammunintion.
Bob



Bob....I have a box of .450 Magnum as well, but mine are shorter than a .454 case (they mic around 1.32"). Do you have any idea as to how many of these were made by North American Arms?

Lee Martin
www.singleactions.com
20 February 2004, 10:21
Grandpasez
There is the 460 Rowland,built by my good friend,Johnny Rowland, which is a lengthened and
stronger built 45 ACP diameter round.Can get a kit to use them in 1911 Autos.And are good in pistols and rifles.
Brass made by Starline,loaded ammo by Georgia Cartridge.
Much more power than a 44 MAG.Ed.
20 February 2004, 15:16
captnemo
Quote:

I have both the revolver and two boxes of the ammunintion. Bob



Does the cartridge headspace on the mouth, or is it semi-rimmed?

the_captn
21 February 2004, 02:19
Lee Martin
It headspaces off the mouth.

Lee Martin
www.singleactions.com
23 February 2004, 16:10
Clark
A cartridge with a shoulder gets centered with the bolt face and the shoulder, like a collet in a tool holder.



The straight wall rolls around like a weiner in a big pipe.



So I made a 45 acp rifle that has a straight wall .469" chamber, because that is the size that 45acp brass comes out of a .467" carbide die. The throat is with a 45acp throater. The barrel is a Shilen .452" barrel blank.



The loaded ammo is repeatedly resized until the round will drop in. This keeps everything concentric. I have got .7" 3 shot groups at 100m.



I load a half grains past the 460 Rowland load level: 230 gr Montana Gold FMJ, 13 gr AA#5.

This is 44 mag rifle performace at a higher pressure than 44 mag.







This concept could be continued to 45 Win mag, .308, or 30-06 cartridge lengths.
23 February 2004, 16:26
craigster
Clark, what you've got there is exactly what I had in mind. My plan was to use a '91 Argentine action. The magazine is a "straight stack" so there would be no problems with the geometry. Did you have to alter the feed rails, does it feed from the magazine or do you "single shot" it? I'm very interested in the details. Thanks to all for the info.
23 February 2004, 17:43
RpR1
Quote:

It headspaces off the mouth.

Lee Martin
www.singleactions.com



Lee you are right the .454 is just a tad longer, I had them mixed in the collection case and did not look close enough to see which one had a rim.
It was either 10,000 or 50,000 max. I just read the article a short time ago but I do not remeber exactly how many. He also said that the unsold ammo was destroyed, now he was also going on heresay.
It used to be on auction fairly often five years ago but now it has disappeared.
At least one cartridge maker is now loading it, I think it is Quality Cartridge, they are making a fair number of oddballs now.
I am going to rechamber my .450 mag to something else as the cartridges have started to fall into the cylinder.
Bob
24 February 2004, 05:43
Clark
Craigster,
Feed?
If I take that rifle to the range again, I am going to chamfer the breech first, so the case mouth will not need shoe horning with a screwdriver to raise it .012".

This guy knows how to make one feed:
http://action_enterprise.tripod.com/Mauser.htm

These guys sell a magazine mod:
http://www.rhinelandarms.com/
24 February 2004, 18:36
craigster
Clark,
Well shit! If it don't feed it might as well be a muzzleloader! Thanks for the input and the links.

Craig
10 March 2004, 09:29
maxman
Clark- you are the king of finding interesting web pages! That picture story of the conversion was worth more than a thousand words. maxman