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Re: 458 RSAUM

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28 April 2004, 03:01
9point3
Re: 458 RSAUM
Don't rip me a new one if I am wrong but wouldn't a 458 on either a SAUM or a Win Short mag have more capacity than either the 450 marlin or the 458x2. Are not both cases bigger in diameter than the standard belted magnum?
24 April 2004, 09:49
bigokie
I'm building a 458 RSAUM. I have a 700 BDL, a 458 caliber remington barrel off of a different project. I'm just wondering about who to do the gunsmith work? It's not going to require too much work. I'm just wondering who everyone has dealt with that did a good job? Thanks
24 April 2004, 12:02
Paul H
As I recall, there was a gunsmith that posted pictures of a 458 short mag he'd built on either the big bore or gunsmith forum. I can't vouch for his work, as I've never used him.

I have had John Ricks of Shooting Star Rifles barrel several actions for me, and he did a great job on all of them. He is both accuracy oriented, and a big bore fan. I don't know if he is currently taking work, as he had quite a back log.
25 April 2004, 01:58
WyoJoe
That is John Noveske and his web site is: http://www.jnrifleworks.com

He uses the WSM case but might be persauded to use the SAUM case.
25 April 2004, 04:06
jeffeosso
i'll ask..


WHY!!!!

How would this be superior to a 450 marlin?

jeffe
27 April 2004, 19:59
bigokie
I'm gonna use it in a bolt gun, not a lever. I can use pointed spitzer type bullets for elk and deer and hogs. Can also use cast bullets for cheaper practice. And hopefully will make it into a 7.5 pound rifle. And it will be able to approach the ballistics of the 458 win mag. It is within a few grains of the same capacity in a short action. That's why. Plus I just prefer the rsaum over the wsm case.
28 April 2004, 01:28
jeffeosso
Okie,
the 450 marlin is exactly the same thing, except the belt, as the 458x2"... and excels in a bolt gun... and you won't be paying
150 for a custom reamer
160 for custom dies
100 for custom headspace gages

and it's already being done in mod7/70compacts

the suam is a SMALL case...

jeffe
28 April 2004, 03:45
jeffeosso
Quote:

Don't rip me a new one if I am wrong but wouldn't a 458 on either a SAUM or a Win Short mag have more capacity than either the 450 marlin or the 458x2. Are not both cases bigger in diameter than the standard belted magnum?





not ripping...



I don't have my case data on hand (i'll look when i get home) and I believe the wsm to be larger... and it's fairly close to a 2.5" call... call it 5 grains short... which, IIRC makes the wsm case slightly larger than the marlin...



BUT



is it worth the cost of dies/reamer/headspace gages?



Since I know a 450 marlin wil throw a 350 at 2250 in a lever gun, and the 458 2" will throw a 400 at 2300 in a bolt gun (max loads) and a 458 win will get to 2600, i jsut don't see that the cost will offset the "gain" especially if one uses a rem short action.



let's call it spliting the diff... the 458x2" 400 gr at 2300, the 458 to 2600, so, the 458 saum would go 2450... max loads..



not seeing it works 4-500 bucks for ~100fps



jeffe

(edited.. mis-typed then kept it goign)
28 April 2004, 07:10
DB Bill
I'd like to hear about the loads that will give you 2400fps with a 400gr bullet in the 458x2" or it's ballistic twin the 450 Marlin.....that's more than 5100 ftlbs of ME.
28 April 2004, 07:34
Paul H
Good question, actually the 458 win mag is hard pressed to push 400 gr 2400 fps.

I would think a 458-2" is more like a 350 gr @ 2200-2300 fps round, and that's nothing to sneeze at!
28 April 2004, 16:16
jeffeosso
Quote:

Good question, actually the 458 win mag is hard pressed to push 400 gr 2400 fps.

I would think a 458-2" is more like a 350 gr @ 2200-2300 fps round, and that's nothing to sneeze at!



Not getting mike's 450 data, but quickload data, so, on straight cases, knock off ~75fps

rem 405 SP - 23" barrel 55,000 PSI (roughly 48500cup)

450 marlin --2268fps 74 gr/h20 2.8"
458 jamison -- 2375 90gr/h20 (basically a 458x300wsm) 2.86"
450 american 2" 2261fos, 73 gr h20 2.8
458 winmag, 2470 95gr h20, 3.340"
460 weatherby 2752 141gr h20, 3.750 "

just for giggles,
458 win mag, rem 405, , 60,000psi, 25" barrel 2579fps

so, yeah, the saum based might be about 100-150fps faster than a 450 marlin, IN A BOLT GUN at the same pressure/barrel

and about the same slower than a 458 winmag

btw, the jamison and 458win loads have been 100% verified... about 50-75fps "slower" than quickload.... the 458x2" is about what was claimed for it....

jeffe


450marling
28 April 2004, 19:42
DB Bill
Noveske is getting about 2600fps with the 300gr Barnes in his 458 Noveske (WSM Case) but that's in a 16.5" barrel. You could probably figure an extra 100+ fps by going with a 22" barrel and let's face it, 2700+ fps with a 300gr Barnes bullet is a pretty impressive 4850 ftlbs of ME.
02 May 2004, 05:28
DB Bill
Here's a picture showing...from the left... case from 9.53 Lazzeroni Hellcat, a 450 Marlin and John Noveske's 458 based on the necked-up WSM.

[url="http://www.hunt101.com/?p=58573&c=500&z=1"][/url]
05 May 2004, 20:35
B17G
Okie,
we have a local gun smith who visits the forum, by the Name of John Noveske. www.jnrifleworks.com is his website.

He has done that on a Winchester short mag case in 458, and Hornady actually offers the die titled 458 Noveske.

I have seen some of his rifles in this, and he has done several barrels for me and his work is highly recommended.

each one have been tack drivers.

Cheers and good shooting
seafire