The Accurate Reloading Forums
Borescope pics-potholes in the bore.
29 September 2019, 17:02
shootawayBorescope pics-potholes in the bore.
How did these holes or pits occur? They are found throughout the bore from muzzle to chamber.
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]1[/URL]
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]2[/URL]
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]3[/URL]
29 September 2019, 21:39
Michael MichalskiNo clue. How does it shoot?
NRA Benefactor Member
US Navy Veteran
29 September 2019, 21:51
Opus1Shootaway - Welcome to the world of borescopes. Much like a microscope, they can frighten the hell out of you while making you aware why premium barrels cost what they do. What you are looking at are euphemistically called "tooling marks" and they often include pits, gouges, scoring, etc etc. Nothing to worry about, however, this is why some bores are more difficult to fully remove copper jacket material when compared to others.
The old adage - "What you don't know won't hurt you" applies here.
Two of the most critical areas to inspect are the chamber throat and the crown. Borescopes are invaluable for that and checking for both powder and copper fouling buildup. Again concentrate on the throat area as this can lead to high pressure problems.
___________________
Just Remember, We ALL Told You So.
29 September 2019, 23:12
shootawayquote:
Originally posted by Michael Michalski:
No clue. How does it shoot?
It shoots good.
30 September 2019, 01:12
shootawayquote:
Originally posted by Opus1:
Shootaway - Welcome to the world of borescopes. Much like a microscope, they can frighten the hell out of you while making you aware why premium barrels cost what they do. What you are looking at are euphemistically called "tooling marks" and they often include pits, gouges, scoring, etc etc. Nothing to worry about, however, this is why some bores are more difficult to fully remove copper jacket material when compared to others.
The old adage - "What you don't know won't hurt you" applies here.
Two of the most critical areas to inspect are the chamber throat and the crown. Borescopes are invaluable for that and checking for both powder and copper fouling buildup. Again concentrate on the throat area as this can lead to high pressure problems.
I don't know.It is strange that I ordered two identical Pac-nor 458 Lott barrels at the same time and only one shows these pits throughout.
30 September 2019, 01:19
Opus1Old cutter and/or poor material...
If it is a virgin barrel, send the pics to Pac-Nor. See what they have to say...
For What It's Worth - cryo-treatment before cutting generally solves a lot of these problems.
___________________
Just Remember, We ALL Told You So.
30 September 2019, 01:36
shootawayThe second Pac-nor(pictured below) is perfect throughout.
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]2[/URL]
Could heat applied to a barrel to remove a banded front sight cause these pits.Could heat cause these pits.Are these caused by rust? Could the barrel have rusted during poor storage and caused these?
30 September 2019, 01:52
Opus1That's typical of a premium barrel. No tooling marks and clean cut grooves.
No, corrosion will not typically cause that type of micro pitting. Corrosion that has been cleaned up will generally look like a frosted surface (not polished) with pitting. And the pitting generally will be more irregular and not perfectly circular.
At least that's my experience of 30 years of looking at bores with a Hawkeye scope.
___________________
Just Remember, We ALL Told You So.
30 September 2019, 02:16
shootawayquote:
Originally posted by Opus1:
That's typical of a premium barrel. No tooling marks and clean cut grooves.
No, corrosion will not typically cause that type of micro pitting. Corrosion that has been cleaned up will generally look like a frosted surface (not polished) with pitting. And the pitting generally will be more irregular and not perfectly circular.
At least that's my experience of 30 years of looking at bores with a Hawkeye scope.
Thanks!
30 September 2019, 02:37
Opus1I would not hesitate in sending the picture to Pac-Nor for their feedback. If that is a virgin barrel, there is definitely something wrong here.
___________________
Just Remember, We ALL Told You So.
30 September 2019, 02:45
shootawayquote:
Originally posted by Opus1:
I would not hesitate in sending the picture to Pac-Nor for their feedback. If that is a virgin barrel, there is definitely something wrong here.
What do you mean by "virgin barrel"?
30 September 2019, 03:01
Opus1Virgin as in new'ish. 100 rounds or less.
Question - are the lands and groves the same level of pitting? One more than the other?
___________________
Just Remember, We ALL Told You So.
30 September 2019, 03:35
shootawayThis was a new barrel.I supplied a new chamber reamer, chose the barrel contour etc...
The pits are throughout the bore-as many on the lands as on the grooves.
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]1[/URL]
30 September 2019, 06:15
Opus1That would warrant a loooong discussion with Pac-Nor.
Hope they make this right.
___________________
Just Remember, We ALL Told You So.
30 September 2019, 09:28
Phil Brousseaujjj
30 September 2019, 15:08
shootawayDouglas barrel-458 Lott
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]1[/URL]
[URL=
]Douglas barrel[/URL]
Pac-nor 450NE
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]1[/URL]
Pac-nor 500NE
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]1[/URL]
[URL=
]500NE Throat[/URL]
Although the Douglas barrel does not have any pits there are a few tool marks but not many and the lands look shallow compared to those on the Pac-nor barrel.
01 October 2019, 02:05
jplquote:
Originally posted by shootaway:
The pits are throughout the bore-as many on the lands as on the grooves.
Are they pits or raised bumps(they look like blisters)? Is that a button barrel? It looks like small inclusions or defects in the base material, or possibly small filings or chips (or just crud) that has been "ironed" into the bore by the button.
01 October 2019, 12:32
30.06kingGeorge,
Apart from showing bore imperfections is the borescope confirming anything about your bore cleaning system ?
Hunting.... it's not everything, it's the only thing.
01 October 2019, 14:27
shootawayquote:
Originally posted by 30.06king:
George,
Apart from showing bore imperfections is the borescope confirming anything about your bore cleaning system ?
Yes.My cleaning method cleaned the barrels pictured above right down to the metal.I still have a few barrels to clean two of which show that carbon ring in front of the throat.Interesting to see if I can remove the carbon ring and how easy or difficult will that be.I will take some before and after pics.One rifle,a CZ 458WM I use to shoot cast only is really rough and fouled.I would like to see if I can clean that without using JB paste.
01 October 2019, 14:40
shootawayquote:
Originally posted by jpl:
quote:
Originally posted by shootaway:
The pits are throughout the bore-as many on the lands as on the grooves.
Are they pits or raised bumps(they look like blisters)? Is that a button barrel? It looks like small inclusions or defects in the base material, or possibly small filings or chips (or just crud) that has been "ironed" into the bore by the button.
They seem to be pits and the metal does not seem raised.Yes it is a button rifled barrel.
02 October 2019, 01:15
Fury01I thought about the crud ironed into the metal by the button but that doesn't explain the Chamber being the same way. Bad batch of steel seems to be the only thing that would affect both areas to me. that or Corrosion of some kind and George says no to that.
"The liberty enjoyed by the people of these states of worshiping Almighty God agreeably to their conscience, is not only among the choicest of their blessings, but also of their rights."
~George Washington - 1789
02 October 2019, 01:41
shootawayquote:
Originally posted by Fury01:
I thought about the crud ironed into the metal by the button but that doesn't explain the Chamber being the same way. Bad batch of steel seems to be the only thing that would affect both areas to me. that or Corrosion of some kind and George says no to that.
I just checked it again and yes there is plenty of it in the chamber too.
[URL=
]chamber/throat[/URL]
[URL=
]chamber/ throat[/URL]
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]chamber[/URL]
03 October 2019, 01:13
shootawayThis is a picture of a section of the lands on my Lothar Walther 308Win barrel.This rifle had many rds through it and has been shot with a hot barrel repeatedly.Can anyone tell me what caused the lands to be engraved like this.They do not all look as bad as this but some do.
[URL=
]Walther Lothar 308[/URL]
03 October 2019, 01:23
shootawayHere is my cleaning results.
I tried removing the carbon ring in front of the throat of my two 308's.Pictured here is the Lothar Walther throat-before and after.It was really difficult to clean.I used JB bore bright on a patch around a copper brush and a lot of elbow grease.
[URL=
]before[/URL]
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]2[/URL]
[URL=
]after[/URL]
03 October 2019, 21:58
shootawayI shot the Krieger 308 the worst shooting of the two 308's.I shot it after giving it the throat cleaning like the one pictured above and WOW!
04 October 2019, 05:56
BuglemintodayWhich Borescope is this? I like my Hawkeye I just need to get a few more attachments for it. Great photos! I love looking in the bores of my rifles.
"Let me start off with two words: Made in America"
04 October 2019, 17:36
shootawayquote:
Originally posted by Buglemintoday:
Which Borescope is this? I like my Hawkeye I just need to get a few more attachments for it. Great photos! I love looking in the bores of my rifles.
Teslong
05 October 2019, 03:03
richjMine is on the way. Sept 19 shipped. It hit DHL yesterday and looks like the local PO today.
05 October 2019, 03:16
crbutlerSo how do you guys get the dang thing to stay in the middle of the barrel.
I’ve got a Hawkeye, but essentially don’t use it much because I can’t hold it steady enough for doing any sort of documentation with it.
05 October 2019, 13:36
shootawayquote:
Originally posted by crbutler:
So how do you guys get the dang thing to stay in the middle of the barrel.
I’ve got a Hawkeye, but essentially don’t use it much because I can’t hold it steady enough for doing any sort of documentation with it.
It is very easy to use.I put it in and twist or rotate the cable between my fingers as I move it through the bore.I guess it doesn't need to be in the centre-it just works fine.Watch the mirror when you pull the cable out of the end of the barrel as the bent or flexed cable can act like a sling and cause the end to strike something and knock the mirror out.
05 October 2019, 17:56
shootawayHere are some pics of the carbon at the junction of the neck of the chamber and the throat.
I have not shot these rifles in about 15yrs.They all have stopped shooting-meaning they will not hit on the target paper at 100yds.They all have about a couple of hundred rounds through them.I am going to clean up the carbon in this area, shoot them and report back some time in the future.The last pic is the same area of my CZ 458WM that I cleaned up completely.I use this rifle to shoot cast bullets and it has over two thousand rounds through it.
[URL=
]Win.mod.70 super grade 300WM[/URL]
[URL=
]win mod 70 classic 300wm[/URL]
[URL=
]Win mod 70 classic sporter 300WM[/URL]
[URL=
]Win mod 70 270wsm[/URL]
[URL=
]Rem.700BDL 300RUM[/URL]
[URL=
]CZ 458WM [/URL]
05 October 2019, 19:16
Fury01Great pictures Sir. Very interesting.
Thanks for sharing.
"The liberty enjoyed by the people of these states of worshiping Almighty God agreeably to their conscience, is not only among the choicest of their blessings, but also of their rights."
~George Washington - 1789
05 October 2019, 19:55
shootawayquote:
Originally posted by Fury01:
Great pictures Sir. Very interesting.
Thanks for sharing.
No problem.After I saw how my Krieger barrelled 308Win shot when I cleaned the carbon in that area I am really excited.If I had a borescope years ago I would not have got rid a few barrels and have saved a lot of money on cleaning supplies.
05 October 2019, 23:15
shootawayThis thread reminds me of another started around twenty years ago buy a poster named "stunt pilot"(he used a 460 Weatherby). The thread was titled "my education in the hands of a borescope" or something similar.He checked to see how efficient different cleaning methods were.I got into an argument with him and remember telling him "I know why you can't get your bore clean even with a borescope-because you've been using the borescope in the bore that will never clean"
10 October 2019, 01:23
Fury01I got mine in the mail a couple of days ago and just got it up and running. The OLD Springfield Whelen has some throat erosion, scaly looking in the grooves in that region, but the rest of her looks good to go. Either way, it's good to go for the rest of my shooting I think. Though I would love to have DpcD put a new Oberndorf Douglas on her for the next 100 years.
Year old Ruger 260 found and cleaned the Carbon ring out with KG1 and some Flitz on a patch over a Nylon Brush.
"The liberty enjoyed by the people of these states of worshiping Almighty God agreeably to their conscience, is not only among the choicest of their blessings, but also of their rights."
~George Washington - 1789
11 October 2019, 19:33
HuviusThis thread is a good reminder of why I don't want a bore scope!
The first barrel looks to me like poor quality steel to start with.
I'd send the pictures to PacNor and see what they say.
I foolishly thought that these premium barrel makers may have taken a look at their finished product before shipping. Guess not!
11 October 2019, 23:04
cdsxquote:
Originally posted by shootaway:
Here are some pics of the carbon at the junction of the neck of the chamber and the throat.
I have not shot these rifles in about 15yrs.They all have stopped shooting-meaning they will not hit on the target paper at 100yds.They all have about a couple of hundred rounds through them.I am going to clean up the carbon in this area, shoot them and report back some time in the future.The last pic is the same area of my CZ 458WM that I cleaned up completely.I use this rifle to shoot cast bullets and it has over two thousand rounds through it.
[URL=
]Win.mod.70 super grade 300WM[/URL]
[URL=
]win mod 70 classic 300wm[/URL]
[URL=
]Win mod 70 classic sporter 300WM[/URL]
[URL=
]Win mod 70 270wsm[/URL]
[URL=
]Rem.700BDL 300RUM[/URL]
[URL=
]CZ 458WM [/URL]
The squiggly trenches visible in the first two pics look strangely like microbial pitting.
11 October 2019, 23:46
Fury01Chips in front of the chamber reamer?
"The liberty enjoyed by the people of these states of worshiping Almighty God agreeably to their conscience, is not only among the choicest of their blessings, but also of their rights."
~George Washington - 1789
12 October 2019, 03:14
Fury01Scoped my owned since new Whitworth 458 and sadly found a couple of patches of where moisture must have sat sometime in it's long life which included some years of storage. About 10 inches from the muzzle. Cleaned it up good and am going to go back to being happy with it's fine performance and taking good care of her. Working my way up to looking down the bore of my Very old Syrian 98.
"The liberty enjoyed by the people of these states of worshiping Almighty God agreeably to their conscience, is not only among the choicest of their blessings, but also of their rights."
~George Washington - 1789
13 October 2019, 11:06
JTEXquote:
Originally posted by Fury01:
I thought about the crud ironed into the metal by the button but that doesn't explain the Chamber being the same way. Bad batch of steel seems to be the only thing that would affect both areas to me. that or Corrosion of some kind and George says no to that.
My thought as well. I've seen this before in the chamber area.