I think it would be interesting to watch the processing on some large game during a hunt like hippo, buff or elephant. My question is there time for this during a hunt?

Yep.

One of the most amazing things one could ever see is the butchering (if that's the word) of an elephant on communal lands in Zimbabwe.

You may hunt for days and see no one outside of a village or school, and yet, when you fire your rifle, even miles away from any settlement, a hundred or more folks (men, women and children) will magically appear with homemade knives, pots, wash tubs and any other kind of containers and descend upon the animal like furious jackals or piranha.

I can't watch it but for a minute. Too many folks and knives, axes, pangas, etc. flying about. Scares the hell out of me.

Awaiting permission to attack the body







I didn't get a picture of the women and children hacking away. The below was while the P.H. was still recovering the skin and tusks, but trust me, when the women and kids got involved, there was steel flying everywhere.

As noted, yes, there is time to participate and observe the recovery. Not only is there time to participate, the recovery is an integral part of the hunt and for an elephant an entire day may be devoted to the recovery.

I, for one, do not like recoveries. I understand the value to the community and the other recipients of the meat, but particularly insofar as elephant are concerned the chaos and activity around the recovery in my opinion detract from the dignity of a truly magnificent creature. It is part of the hunt, an important part, and I understand that and participate in it. However, recoveries always leave me feeling a little hollow inside.

quote:

Originally posted by MJines:
As noted, yes, there is time to participate and observe the recovery. Not only is there time to participate, the recovery is an integral part of the hunt and for an elephant an entire day may be devoted to the recovery.

I, for one, do not like recoveries. I understand the value to the community and the other recipients of the meat, but particularly insofar as elephant are concerned the chaos and activity around the recovery in my opinion detract from the dignity of a truly magnificent creature. It is part of the hunt, an important part, and I understand that and participate in it. However, recoveries always leave me feeling a little hollow inside.

Agreed. My last one was 5 or so miles from a village so probably 250 people arrived. I have no problem staying around for the butchering. But when it comes time for the distribution of the meat I will request a ride back to camp before it commences.

Steel,

Watching the crew disassemble an animal is all part of the experience. They can do amazing things with just a knife, home made axe and muscle power. I love to watch them as they can do everything so fast and nothing is wasted. I agree and elephant killed in a communal area can cause chaos at the kill site. I think we have to consider though that these folks are often protein starved and that piece of elephant meat to them is like the best prime rib to us.

Mark

Does the hunter get to take the elephant tenderloin to eat?

I can`t speak about ele but for other animals it can be complicated.It depends on what time you shoot the animal and the time they get to it.You could be busy doing other things while the process is going on like having supper,washing and getting ready for supper,hunting,etc...If you do have some free time you could find the guys at the skinning and meat shed working on someone else`s animal.IMO,you will be preoccupied with other things unless the chips fall in such a way that you and your PH have this in your plans or just find yourselves visiting the shed at the right time.IMO,you may find that waiting around for it or watching the process is not the most exciting thing in the world.

quote:

Originally posted by steel:
My question is there time for this during a hunt?

It is your hunt, if you want to watch the processing the PH should oblige you.

As JudgeG wrote it is an amazing site to watch when the animal is handed over to the the locals in a communal area.

Yes it is truly amazing to watch . I have see it done on 2 elephants and 1 hippo. You are out in the middle of nowhere many miles away from any village but within the hour the entire village shows up to get some elephant meat Every where you look their are villagers there are hundreds of them. Within 3 to 4 hours the meat from the entire elephant is gone including the entrails. It can become bedlam knives axes cutting off elephant flesh it surprises me that more people are not hurt in the process. Good photo opportunity. Had elephant meat not that tasty but the Africans loved it.

What does it taste like?

Like chicken Just kidding .Kind of hard to describe strong something like liver that that has been out to long could not finish my plate . That said the African guys liked it

wonder if the tenderloin would be more enjoyable

Never had elephant & am game to try it, but if there's a Popeye's Fried Chicken joint close by, I'll be eating chicken with Cajun rice!

If you absolutely have to eat elephant, cheek meat is what you want to eat. It is okay but it ain't eland.

As has been said before, it's your safari, you can watch as much or as little of the processing as you like.

Elephant is a process by the community.

The rest of the game quite a bit less, but still interesting. If baiting cats, it really is speedy, and not too much work, if you are at a place that is processing for sale, it might be quite different.

As to elephant, I ate a bit of mine, and the way they cooked it, I was not conscious of much flavor, but they used so much garlic and hot sauce, it would be hard to. My impression was much more of the toughness and thickness of the muscle fibers.

Having processed a deer or twenty in my time, it's not really any different in details, just in size.

IMHO, yes.
It is your hunt and you are paying the bills and you can do whatever you like. I've tried meat from most of my animals and no one gave a hoot if I wanted to cut a steak from the critter. While we go to Africa to hunt, a very positive sideline is seeing the gratitude of the local people when they are give so much meat. Some PHs sell the meat to the locals as they are driven by the dollar sign. When that is the case, I've offered to buy the meat and give it to the locals.
It's your game, do what makes you happy and gives you the best memories. Don't ever return from safari and think to yourself, "I wish I had done that."
Do it!
Cheers,
Cal

quote:

Originally posted by cal pappas:
It's your game, do what makes you happy and gives you the best memories. Don't ever return from safari and think to yourself, "I wish I had done that."

Speaking of which, one thing I have said I was going to do on multiple safaris but never have, is follow a honeyguide bird. On multiple occasions we have had one pestering us but never took the time to follow it. Gotta get that done.

Nope.

As Mike Jines said; the recovery of something as majestic as an elephant has got to be experienced once to appreciate how Africa works, but personally I now would rather not be present.
To me the animal looses it's dignity when it's dismembered.

As others have stated it is your safari and within reason you can do pretty much what you want. My last hunter was a better butcher than I and his job was to remove choice cuts of meat from the carcass for the kitchen.

I have never seen a wild elephant, which is weird considering how many places in Africa I have been.

We stopped by a taxidermist in Windhoek when we were finished to drop off my trophies, and they had a couple ephalumps in the freezer.

It was "disturbing?". Not sure how I felt about it. I'd like to hunt one, and even though I had seen the elephant butcher block portions of hunting DVDs I was still blown away to see him lying there on the taxidermy shop floor ready to turn into a monument.

It seems that since people are willing to kill an animal but do not want to watch it be cut apart to be consumed shows that in fact we often hunt the "idea" of the animal versus the animal itself. I disagree with that ideology and would fully embrace watching/participating in the 'butchering" or "processing" by those who live with the animals day-in, day-out as part of the experience. If that made me turn the other way, I would re-think hunting the animal in the first place.

Surely you can appreciate the difference between the beauty of a living animal versus the solemnity of the same animal dead. Watching the spectacle that is frequently an elephant recovery is a stark and sobering contrast to the majesty of the animal alive. I actually believe that feeling that way make the hunting experience more meaningful, since you appreciate the significance of what you are doing. I make no excuses or apologies for saying that elephant recoveries leave me feeling a bit melancholy.

Of course. It's a symbolic interactionists dream. What is a majestic icon to us is mere protein to another. Solemnity is one thing, a desire to not take part in or witness the solemnity, i.e. reality, is something else. Not asking for apologies, just saying that if in the totality of the hunting experience the kill is all you (widely applied pronoun) can gain something from, perhaps that's a bit short-sighted in regards to how the activity fits into the scheme of the real world. Feel as you wish, but I would welcome this opportunity, although I have no delusions I will ever be so lucky as to experience it.

In my view you are focused on the wrong end of the experience in terms of determining the quality of the experience. Of course, the quality of the experience is the sum of all the parts, before, during and after the kill. However, for me, the quality of the experience, is largely determined not by the kill or the activity after the kill, it is determined by the nature of the chase. Participating or not participating in the recovery is not going to detract from, or make, my overall experience. But that is easy for me to say, I have seen many elephant recoveries. For someone on their first elephant hunt, they should absolutely participate in the recovery. Obviously, different folks will view the nature of the hunting experience differently.

I really enjoyed the recovery of my first elephant bull. It was a new thing for me. It was incredible to be that close to my elephant bull, and to get a real sense of just how enormous these majestic creatures are.

However since that first recovery, I can't say I have enjoyed the process. I echo Mike's sentiments, in that I realize importance of the recovery process to the local people and to the future of elephant hunting, but I also understand the melancholy feelings. I think one big downer for me is that it marks the end of the elephant hunt. On my elephant hunts, we worked our asses off day after day after day, sometimes walking 15+ miles per day in 100 F temperatures. Then you find your bull. On the final approach and shooting, you go from the wildest adrenalin rush ever,....to hunt is over. It is a bit of a downer for me.

I really enjoy hunting buffalo and plainsgame, but for me, elephant hunting is the finest hunting experience by a long, long way. I don't experience any sort of melancholy after shooting buffalo, plainsgame or North American game, just on elephants. Man I love elephant hunting!!!

I would disagree that my view is from the 'wrong' end, as it's a matter of priorities. I would agree that the "chase" is a major component of the hunt, and that that experience comprises much of the "thrill" of why we hunt. My point is that if the moment of the kill is where that experience ends, it is not a complete experiece. Whether is adds or detracts from the experience is a personal matter, but again, if I had the opportunity to experience such an event, I would do so as part of a holistic approach to what I was doing, and it would likely taint my experience if I felt I were able to kill an elephant but not accept what happened to it afterward. Just different perspectives is all.

Agreed, "wrong" was a poor choice of words. For each person the hunting experience will be a bit different.

quote:

Originally posted by MJines:
As noted, yes, there is time to participate and observe the recovery. Not only is there time to participate, the recovery is an integral part of the hunt and for an elephant an entire day may be devoted to the recovery.

I, for one, do not like recoveries. I understand the value to the community and the other recipients of the meat, but particularly insofar as elephant are concerned the chaos and activity around the recovery in my opinion detract from the dignity of a truly magnificent creature. It is part of the hunt, an important part, and I understand that and participate in it. However, recoveries always leave me feeling a little hollow inside.

Mike you are getting a little soft as you age
I must admit that I have always had a similar feeling when approaching an animal I have downed, something that was living and minding its own business until I took its life. For this reason I have always been adverse to backslapping, congratulating and worst still, skylarking around after shooting an animal. I usually just like some quiet contemplation and appreciation of a good hunt, a good shot and the obtaining of an animal for trophy or meat. Of course all this does not stop me going out and hunting and shooting animals as often as I can. I too would probably would find the butchering of an animal by a meat starved crowd not to my liking.

Personally I feel as humans we should have some empathy with the animals whose life we take and at least try to observe some humility when doing so but then that is only me, and each to his own I guess.

quote:

Originally posted by MJines:
If you absolutely have to eat elephant, cheek meat is what you want to eat. It is okay but it ain't eland.

A quick snack at the kill site....




I did not enjoy the taste, I'd rather eat wolf meat! (seriously)

I loved elephant meat and the whole process, sitting and watching, helping women gather firewood, have some Palm wine. Damn, those were good times.
Meat is what's for dinner
My Neanderthal DNA just comes alive on these occasions

Wow, no problem in taking the life, but don't want to see the truly good that comes afterward. This is probably truer with the Elephant than any other African game. Maybe it is ones life experiences, personally I skinned and butchered whitetails before I was old enough to hunt, just the way it was in my family.

quote:

Originally posted by BaxterB:
It seems that since people are willing to kill an animal but do not want to watch it be cut apart to be consumed shows that in fact we often hunt the "idea" of the animal versus the animal itself. I disagree with that ideology and would fully embrace watching/participating in the 'butchering" or "processing" by those who live with the animals day-in, day-out as part of the experience. If that made me turn the other way, I would re-think hunting the animal in the first place.

My issue is not the butchering or seeing the animal butchered and put to good use. My issue with watching my fellow humans behave like animals when the distribution begins. I understand protein is far and few between for many of them. However it is still disturbing to be present.

steel,

Elephant meat to me tasted fine but it was nearly impossible to chew.

Mark

quote:

My issue with watching my fellow humans behave like animals when the distribution begins. I understand protein is far and few between for many of them. However it is still disturbing to be present.

I can understand that. That gives an even greater insight into what the day-to-day reality is for rural Africans.

Watching a team of men go about the work of butchering an elephant is interesting. The first time. After that. Meh. Watching men work is not one of my favorite pastimes.


This year the game scout and the tracker had to cut a 1/4 mile of road with hand axes to get the truck to the elephant. Then they both pitched in and helped with the butchering.

First time I have seen a game scout actually do any work.

quote:

Originally posted by Muletrain:
Watching a team of men go about the work of butchering an elephant is interesting. The first time. After that. Meh. Watching men work is not one of my favorite pastimes.


This year the game scout and the tracker had to cut a 1/4 mile of road with hand axes to get the truck to the elephant. Then they both pitched in and helped with the butchering.

First time I have seen a game scout actually do any work.

When I hunted Zim, the game scout helped with cutting the road to my buff and field dressing it. He was a cheerful but very quiet. I don't think that he said more than ten words the whole hunt. He clearly said "thank you" when I gave him some candy and when I gave him a tip at the end of the hunt.

quote:

It was incredible to be that close to my elephant bull, and to get a real sense of just how enormous these majestic creatures are.

The recovery process should be considered equal for every animal, from Suni to Elephant; each is majestic in its own way.

Is it the length of time it takes in processing the animal or the astounding amount of blood guts and gore that separates the Elephant from the Suni?

There are not that many places in the African hunting world where the carcass of the Elephant is accessible to the villagers; certainly not in TZ anyway.