Petrified of Flying!!

29 May 2009, 21:19

ChetNC

One of my old units in the Corps still had the old M151 jeeps when everybody else was using hummers. The one (and only) plus for the jeep is that 3 of them fit perfectly inside a CH-53 helo. We would load up on ship and fly ashore to do airfield seizures and things like that.
Once when we were about halfway to feet dry on a fairly long flight, one of our drivers started waving frantically at the crew chief of the bird telling him there was hydraulic fluid spraying onto the jeep from a line inside the bird.
The crew chief was not even mildly alarmed and told our driver "Let me know when it stops leaking."
"Why?" asked the driver.
"Because that means we are out of hydraulic fluid dude."

I never thought a pair of human eyes could literally fill a set of GI goggles but apparently it is possible.

ChetNC

29 May 2009, 21:31

Michael Robinson

Read the following.

It's a transcript of the cockpit recording of the pilot and co-pilot talking to each other on February 12th of this year, just before Continental Connection Flight 3407 from Newark to Buffalo crashed into a house not far from its destination, killing 50 people, including all on board and one on the ground.

If this doesn't scare you, nothing will.

22:10:32 - First Officer Rebecca Shaw: Oh yeah, oh it's lots of ice.
22:10:47 - Captain Marvin Renslow: "Oh yeah, that's the most I've seen, most ice I've seen on the leading edges in a long time. In a while, anyway, I should say.
22:10:57 - Shaw: Flying in the Northeast, I've ... 1,600 hours. ... I had more actual time on my first day of IOE (initial operating experience) than I did in the 1,600 hours I had when I came here.
22:11:31 - Renslow: But, uh, as a matter of fact I got hired with about 625 hours here.
22:11:37 - Shaw: Oh wow.
22:11:39 - Shaw: That's not much for, uh, back when you got hired.
22:11:42 - Renslow: No but, uh, out of that ... 250 hours was, uh, part 121 turbine, multi-engine turbine.
22:11:50 - Shaw: Oh that's right yeah.
22:11:54 - Shaw: No, but all these guys are complaining, they're saying, you know, how we were supposed to upgrade by now and ... I'm thinking, you know what? I really wouldn't mind going through a winter in the Northeast before I have to upgrade to captain.
22:12:05 - Shaw: I've never seen icing conditions. I've never de-iced. ... I've never experienced any of that. I don't want to have to experience that and make those kinds of calls. You know I'd've freaked out. I'd have, like, seen this much ice and thought, oh my gosh we were going to crash.
22:13:58 - Renslow: Oh yeah, I'm so glad. ... I mean, I would've been ... fine. I would have survived it. .. We never had to make decisions that I wouldn't have been able to make but ... now I'm more comfortable.
22:15:59 - Cockpit area microphone (CAM): (sound similar to decrease in engine power)
22:16:04 - Renslow: Gear down... loc's alive.
22:16:06 - CAM (sound similar to landing gear handle movement)
22:16:06 - Buffalo Approach controller (APP): Colgan thirty four zero seven contact tower one two zero point five. Have a good night.
22:16:07 - CAM (sound similar to landing gear deployment)
22:16:11 - Shaw: Over to tower you do the same, 3407.
22:16:14 - Flight Crew Audio Panel (HOT): (sound of two double chimes)
22:16:21 - Shaw: Gear's down.
22:16:23 - Renslow: flaps fifteen before landing checklist.
22:16:26 - CAM (sound similar to flap handle movement)
22:16:26 - Shaw: Uhhh.
22:16:27 - CAM (sound similar to stick shaker lasting 6.7 seconds)
22:16:27 - HOT (sound similar to autopilot disconnect horn repeats until end of recording)
22:16:27 - CAM (sound of click)
22:16:31 - CAM (sound similar to increase in engine power)
22:16:34 - Renslow: Jesus Christ!
22:16:35 - CAM (sound similar to stick shaker lasting until end of recording)
22:16:37 - Shaw: I put the flaps up!
22:16:40 - CAM (sound of two clicks)
22:16:42 - Renslow: (sound of grunt) (unintelligible)-ther bear.
22:16:45 - Shaw: Should the gear up?
22:16:46 - Renslow: Gear up ... oh shit!
22:16:50 - CAM (increase in ambient noise)
22:16:51.9 - Renslow: We're down!
22:16:51.9 - CAM (sound of thump)
22:16:52.0 - Shaw: We're (sound of scream) ...

Yikes!

29 May 2009, 22:17

JohnHunt

That is exactly why I prefer ex military (instead of ex-Mcdonalds) to pilot my jumbos.

Remember those 737 rudder problems that caused them to fall out of the sky a few years back. When it happened to ex-military pilots they were able to save the plane since they practiced it in the military. They know how to fly.

29 May 2009, 23:37

onefunzr2

quote:
Petrified of Flying!!

quote:
I'd take a boat if I didnt have a fear of drowning

Yet you have no qualms about having your face a few inches from a 60KPSI explosion every time you pull the trigger? Go figure.

30 May 2009, 05:08

Kamo Gari

quote:
Originally posted by mrlexma:
Read the following.

It's a transcript of the cockpit recording of the pilot and co-pilot talking to each other on February 12th of this year, just before Continental Connection Flight 3407 from Newark to Buffalo crashed into a house not far from its destination, killing 50 people, including all on board and one on the ground.

If this doesn't scare you, nothing will.

22:10:32 - First Officer Rebecca Shaw: Oh yeah, oh it's lots of ice.
22:10:47 - Captain Marvin Renslow: "Oh yeah, that's the most I've seen, most ice I've seen on the leading edges in a long time. In a while, anyway, I should say.
22:10:57 - Shaw: Flying in the Northeast, I've ... 1,600 hours. ... I had more actual time on my first day of IOE (initial operating experience) than I did in the 1,600 hours I had when I came here.
22:11:31 - Renslow: But, uh, as a matter of fact I got hired with about 625 hours here.
22:11:37 - Shaw: Oh wow.
22:11:39 - Shaw: That's not much for, uh, back when you got hired.
22:11:42 - Renslow: No but, uh, out of that ... 250 hours was, uh, part 121 turbine, multi-engine turbine.
22:11:50 - Shaw: Oh that's right yeah.
22:11:54 - Shaw: No, but all these guys are complaining, they're saying, you know, how we were supposed to upgrade by now and ... I'm thinking, you know what? I really wouldn't mind going through a winter in the Northeast before I have to upgrade to captain.
22:12:05 - Shaw: I've never seen icing conditions. I've never de-iced. ... I've never experienced any of that. I don't want to have to experience that and make those kinds of calls. You know I'd've freaked out. I'd have, like, seen this much ice and thought, oh my gosh we were going to crash.
22:13:58 - Renslow: Oh yeah, I'm so glad. ... I mean, I would've been ... fine. I would have survived it. .. We never had to make decisions that I wouldn't have been able to make but ... now I'm more comfortable.
22:15:59 - Cockpit area microphone (CAM): (sound similar to decrease in engine power)
22:16:04 - Renslow: Gear down... loc's alive.
22:16:06 - CAM (sound similar to landing gear handle movement)
22:16:06 - Buffalo Approach controller (APP): Colgan thirty four zero seven contact tower one two zero point five. Have a good night.
22:16:07 - CAM (sound similar to landing gear deployment)
22:16:11 - Shaw: Over to tower you do the same, 3407.
22:16:14 - Flight Crew Audio Panel (HOT): (sound of two double chimes)
22:16:21 - Shaw: Gear's down.
22:16:23 - Renslow: flaps fifteen before landing checklist.
22:16:26 - CAM (sound similar to flap handle movement)
22:16:26 - Shaw: Uhhh.
22:16:27 - CAM (sound similar to stick shaker lasting 6.7 seconds)
22:16:27 - HOT (sound similar to autopilot disconnect horn repeats until end of recording)
22:16:27 - CAM (sound of click)
22:16:31 - CAM (sound similar to increase in engine power)
22:16:34 - Renslow: Jesus Christ!
22:16:35 - CAM (sound similar to stick shaker lasting until end of recording)
22:16:37 - Shaw: I put the flaps up!
22:16:40 - CAM (sound of two clicks)
22:16:42 - Renslow: (sound of grunt) (unintelligible)-ther bear.
22:16:45 - Shaw: Should the gear up?
22:16:46 - Renslow: Gear up ... oh shit!
22:16:50 - CAM (increase in ambient noise)
22:16:51.9 - Renslow: We're down!
22:16:51.9 - CAM (sound of thump)
22:16:52.0 - Shaw: We're (sound of scream) ...

Yikes!

Sounds like you'll be booking your boat tickets about now, OP.

MR, that was cruel. I like it!

30 May 2009, 11:49

Steve Latham

If you really want to cure the fear of flying get someone to take you up in something like a Tiger moth, or maybe a crop sprayer!

30 May 2009, 12:06

N E 450 No2

According to statistics, flying is the safest form of travel.

However I look at it like this.... IT is 50/50.

Either you WILL CRASH, or you WON'T.

I do not worry about things I cannot control, so, if I am not flying the Plane, I just relax and enjoy the trip.

30 May 2009, 16:14

Rusty

Darkside,
There are groups that whelp those who are afraid to fly.

Most of us fear what we can't control or don't know about. A buddy of mine has an aerobatic plane. When he does maneuvers I get queasy. When he lets me take the controls and I do maneuvers I feel in control concentrate on the controls and I'm just fine.

30 May 2009, 16:36

Steve Latham

quote:
Originally posted by Rusty:
Darkside,
There are groups that whelp those who are afraid to fly.

Most of us fear what we can't control or don't know about. A buddy of mine has an aerobatic plane. When he does maneuvers I get queasy. When he lets me take the controls and I do maneuvers I feel in control concentrate on the controls and I'm just fine.

A bit like riding pillion on a Hyabusa!, The Missus uses the ghost dual controls when she's in the truck with me1

30 May 2009, 20:27

CharlesL

For several years I averaged about six flights per week and I would take Xanax every time I flew. It did help.

We had a sales manager that survived a commercial airline crash. He had a real difficult time flying.

31 May 2009, 02:50

darkside

I spent 4 hours yesterday with a pilot who has flown for a couple major airlines over the past 18 years. He shared some pretty amazing facts about the safety of flying versus car/boat/train or any other mode of transportation. Also the tests and stresses them big planes can take is unreal as some have mentioned and confirmed by the pilot. Course if the plane hits the big water at 300 mph I don't think my seat cushion is going to do me much good

Anyway, I feel a bit better after checking out some of the links provided, talking to the pilot and making sure my doc will give me a a heavy dose of Xanax. 11 months and counting

31 May 2009, 04:09

Lorenzo

Some years ago an uruguayan militar plane crashed in los Andes mountains with a rugby team on it, average age 19 years old.

It was one of the most increadible surviving stories in human history.

I am friend of sons and daughters of them, as from some of their young brothers and cousins, it's a hair rising story.

What a bunch of tough men !!

L

31 May 2009, 13:53

jetdrvr

quote:
Originally posted by retreever:
The pilot and crew want to walk away just like you...
All kidding aside some meds to take the edge off and you will be fine...

Remember on my returning to USA landing at Atlanta we were on final approach down to less then a 100 ft and the GD pilot puts the petal to the metal and up and around we go... Radio crackles folks sorry but I missed the landing...New airplane and latest aviononics When those engines on the airbus roared I about shit, thought we were gonners... That screw up cost me getting on my connection and had to wait it five pm instead of 8am home...

Mike

Would you rather have sat on the runway for two hours with blown tires? Sounds like it. For all you know, an aircraft entered the runway ahead of you and caused the go-around. I'll take a go-around against an accident any day or night of the week. I suggest you go take some flying lessons and learn something more of which you criticize. A missed connection beats the hell out of a ride to the mortuary in a green plastic bag.

Regarding fear of flying, it's a phobia. When your number's up, it's up. I've flown to Africa more times than I can count, both as crew and PAX.

Each flight is different. I'm still here, and I flew for 39 years, some of the time in aircraft that were pure crap and often older than I was. Don't sweat it. Pop a couple of Ambiens washed down with a double scotch or three. You'll black out and won't remember the trip. Just don't breathe on the immigration guy or he may not let you in.

And I wasn't military trained. Damn! Wonder how I manage to accumulate 18,000 hours worldwide and retire without having some lieutenant tell me how to fly. Must have been a miracle.

All this criticism of a dead flight crew from people who don't know a rudder pedal from a throttle knob is rude and inelegant, to say the least. Mainly, it's ignorant. Most of you have no idea what it feels like to be flying totally exhausted because of the lousy FAA crew rest requirements for commuter pilots, iced up in the middle of the night, and have had the absolute minimum amount of training from the cheap bastards in management who could care less if you live or die.

The hard fact of air travel is that passengers are nothing more than self-propelled cargo. And the really great thing about flying freight is that boxes don't bitch.

01 June 2009, 01:57

Michael Robinson

My charter from Dar into the Selous last year was a Cessna Caravan. It's a pretty big plane for just a couple of passengers. But I like that.

And the plane was so new that I could still smell the leather on the seats.

When the pilot got on board, I gave him a good once over, as I always do. He was late 40s or early 50s, tall and straight as a ramrod, with graying temples.

Very business like. Just what I like. No callow youths, please.

I greeted the captain, who was French, and remarked to him that the plane seemed to be brand new.

He told me, "It is. I am the oldest thing on this plane, and that's the way you want it."

I sure as hell agreed with that.

01 June 2009, 01:59

Michael Robinson

quote:
Originally posted by Kamo Gari:
Sounds like you'll be booking your boat tickets about now, OP.

KG, I don't think so.

Someone once said (and I agree with whoever said it), that being on a boat is like being in prison, with the added possibility of drowning.

01 June 2009, 18:36

darkside

Thsi don't make me feel a whole lot better

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/brazil_plane

01 June 2009, 22:16

Gatogordo

Hey, don't worry about it, it is not likely you'll be flying out of Rio.......

02 June 2009, 22:33

Michael Robinson

quote:
Originally posted by darkside:
Thsi don't make me feel a whole lot better
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/brazil_plane

Ain't that the truth.

First you fall five miles out of the sky then you sink two miles under the ocean.

KG, I changed my mind about that boat. At least with a boat, you skip the five mile fall and might be lucky enough to make it into a life raft.

03 June 2009, 02:13

drwes

I have more faith in flying now than I used to after being in a bunch of scrapes.I have over 2 million miles in the air. Airplanes are incredibly resilient and tough and most with many back up systems. I rode a 737 down in the 70's and landed without gear down on a foamed runway,,, took off perfectly good cowboy boots to ride the slide down into the foam.... Pretty hard to want to put your boots back on with foam all over your feet. Pilots and crew were fantastic during the whole ordeal. I flew out of Maine in a "Northeaster" storm in 2000. I felt like I was on a ride at an amusement park, the most violent jerking and dropping I have ever been in for over 45 minutes.I had cramps in my arms from hanging on and gripping the seat. My wife was screaming and crying, along with most of the passengers and crew! It took strong whiskey and zanex to get her back on a plane. Headed on a fishing trip we hit a goat on landing in Mexico and took off the front landing gear. Waited all day to put a new one on and had to get back on the same plane and fly the rest of the way to lake..That was a hard plane to climb back in...Consider it all part of the adventure. Pilots and crew are well trained and their butt is in the same plane as you and have family and friends they want to get on the ground and see again.

Fear is not always rational, I am scared to death of snakes,,, And I hate shots!!! Having to get vaccinations to hunt on the dark continent almost made me not go so I understand not wanting to fly. All I can tell you is the shot was over in seconds,,, the flight is 18 hours,,,, good luck!

03 June 2009, 02:52

dogcat

quote:
Originally posted by Lorenzo:
Some years ago an uruguayan militar plane crashed in los Andes mountains with a rugby team on it, average age 19 years old.

It was one of the most increadible surviving stories in human history.

I am friend of sons and daughters of them, as from some of their young brothers and cousins, it's a hair rising story.

What a bunch of tough men !!

L

Great story. The survivors managed to get through a winter in the Andes, eating the remains of the fatalities. When the snow melted enough, one of the guys hiked out and got the rest of them rescued.

03 June 2009, 10:01

surestrike

quote:
Originally posted by JohnHunt:
That is exactly why I prefer ex military (instead of ex-Mcdonalds) to pilot my jumbos.

Remember those 737 rudder problems that caused them to fall out of the sky a few years back. When it happened to ex-military pilots they were able to save the plane since they practiced it in the military. They know how to fly.

Gotta call B.S. on this John. No one has ever survived a full blown PCU malfunction with a full rudder hard over on a 737 in flight.
I've practiced it many times. If you are below about 200 KIAS and under about 10,000 AGL your chances are getting pretty slim.
If I know it's coming and I've got 250 KIAS or so I've recovered it in under 1000' of altitude loss.

03 June 2009, 10:21

N E 450 No2

quote:
Originally posted by Lorenzo:
Some years ago an uruguayan militar plane crashed in los Andes mountains with a rugby team on it, average age 19 years old.

It was one of the most increadible surviving stories in human history.

I am friend of sons and daughters of them, as from some of their young brothers and cousins, it's a hair rising story.

What a bunch of tough men !!

L

Did not they survive by eating the meat of the ones that died durring the crash???

That my friends IS SURVIVAL.

If I remember the story correctly 2 of them walked out, a very far distance, in frozen country, to get help.

Very tough indeed.

03 June 2009, 20:50

bwanajcj

Stop by the airport bar have a few to relax, and once in your seat tell the stewardess to bring a drink every 10 minutes till you pass out then bring one every 20 minutes.

04 June 2009, 05:11

A7Dave

Be a man! Go the bar and have a shot and a beer. Self medicate!

I completely understand the fear, but I've got to tell you, the scariest part of my day is driving to work (and I fly the big stuff for a living). I'd rather land in the middle of a tropical depression (ex-Hurricane Rita) than drive with the bozo's on the highway. Some douche-bag used me as a pylon at 110mph in heavy highway traffic the other day. If only I could get a hunting tag for guys like that!

I'm sure it won't help you, but truly, getting in any car is far more dangerous than flying. Fly with the good airlines, and avoid the "bug smashers" as much as you can. Avoid charter airlines and non-first world airlines. Not that those don't have good pilots, but the odds get worse that the crew and maintenance aren't up to snuff.

Close the window, buy a Bose head set and watch a movie - anything to keep your attention off the flying part. You'll be fine.

05 June 2009, 08:28

Michael Robinson

So now the Air France Airbus en route from Rio de Janeiro to Paris is reported to have disintegrated in mid-air.

Because of a thunder storm.

I am thinking that I might rather face a charging bull elephant than face flying over the ocean to hunt him.

Bloody Mary, anyone?

06 June 2009, 14:58

tendrams

This is exactly the sort of thing that creates flying phobias.

We are talking here about extremely low probably but extremely HIGH CONSEQUENCE events. IF shit goes wrong...everyone dies. At least you get the option of a lifeboat if your cruise ship sinks....which seems (at least in popular perception) to happen a lot less often than a commercial jet crashes.

07 June 2009, 11:17

RAC

quote:
Originally posted by jetdrvr:
quote:
Originally posted by retreever:
The pilot and crew want to walk away just like you...
All kidding aside some meds to take the edge off and you will be fine...

Remember on my returning to USA landing at Atlanta we were on final approach down to less then a 100 ft and the GD pilot puts the petal to the metal and up and around we go... Radio crackles folks sorry but I missed the landing...New airplane and latest aviononics When those engines on the airbus roared I about shit, thought we were gonners... That screw up cost me getting on my connection and had to wait it five pm instead of 8am home...

Mike

Would you rather have sat on the runway for two hours with blown tires? Sounds like it. For all you know, an aircraft entered the runway ahead of you and caused the go-around. I'll take a go-around against an accident any day or night of the week. I suggest you go take some flying lessons and learn something more of which you criticize. A missed connection beats the hell out of a ride to the mortuary in a green plastic bag.

Regarding fear of flying, it's a phobia. When your number's up, it's up. I've flown to Africa more times than I can count, both as crew and PAX.

Each flight is different. I'm still here, and I flew for 39 years, some of the time in aircraft that were pure crap and often older than I was. Don't sweat it. Pop a couple of Ambiens washed down with a double scotch or three. You'll black out and won't remember the trip. Just don't breathe on the immigration guy or he may not let you in.

And I wasn't military trained. Damn! Wonder how I manage to accumulate 18,000 hours worldwide and retire without having some lieutenant tell me how to fly. Must have been a miracle.

All this criticism of a dead flight crew from people who don't know a rudder pedal from a throttle knob is rude and inelegant, to say the least. Mainly, it's ignorant. Most of you have no idea what it feels like to be flying totally exhausted because of the lousy FAA crew rest requirements for commuter pilots, iced up in the middle of the night, and have had the absolute minimum amount of training from the cheap bastards in management who could care less if you live or die.

The hard fact of air travel is that passengers are nothing more than self-propelled cargo. And the really great thing about flying freight is that boxes don't bitch.

+1!!!!!!!!!!