05 September 2005, 02:04
CollinsMore Bad arguments against the .50
http://www.cnsnews.com/ViewPolitics.asp?Page=%5CPolitic...%5CPOL20050209a.htmlPatrick Kennedy Says Resistance to Gun Ban Is 'Insanity'
By Jeff Johnson
CNSNews.com Senior Staff Writer
February 09, 2005
(CNSNews.com) - U.S. Rep. Patrick Kennedy implied Tuesday that congressional colleagues who do not share his support for a failed gun ban being reintroduced in the House are mentally ill. The Rhode Island Democrat also accused lawmakers who oppose the anti-gun legislation of not caring about police safety.
Kennedy is the son of U.S. Sen. Ted Kennedy (D-Mass.) and the nephew of the late President John F. Kennedy and U.S. Sen. Robert Kennedy, both of whom were shot to death.
The younger Kennedy made the comments at a Capitol Hill press conference to promote the reintroduction of the "50 Caliber Sniper Rifle Reduction Act." The bill, introduced by U.S. Rep. Jim Moran (D-Va.), would ban the manufacture of such rifles and severely limit the sale or transfer of existing .50 BMG rifles except for those owned by the military or civilian law enforcement agencies.
"Any policy maker who, on the one hand, says that they are for combating terrorism but, on the other hand, will not back this legislation, backed by Representative Moran, to me has a lot of explaining to do," Kennedy said "In fact, I think it would be the definition of insanity to say that."
In addition to challenging his opponents' mental stability, Kennedy also questioned whether his fellow lawmakers could claim to support police while opposing the gun ban.
"If we don't pass this legislation, this Congress, implicitly, is saying that they do not care about the welfare of our law enforcement community," Kennedy said.
John Burtt -- chairman of the Fifty Caliber Institute, the education and advocacy arm of the Fifty Caliber Shooters Association -- told the Cybercast News Service that Moran, Kennedy and their colleagues are trying to create "backdoor legislation to ban all firearms in this country.
"What they're doing is using hyperbole to create anxiety on the part of the uninformed public that these guns are dangerous, that they are a threat to national security," Burtt said, "but they are not."
Burtt said there has not been a single instance of terrorists using the .50 BMG in an attack on U.S. soil. A handout provided to the media at Moran's press conference listed 12 instances in which a .50 caliber rifle was used, threatened or intended for use in a criminal act. But Alan Gottlieb, founder of the Second Amendment Foundation, reviewed the list and questioned the nature of the examples.
"It's usually people who were prohibited from owning any kind of firearm to begin with and, as a result, should have been prohibited from owning a .50 caliber already," Gottlieb said. "There's no need to have a new law. They ought to just enforce the existing laws."
Moran believes, however, that there is no legitimate reason for civilians to own the rifles.
"It serves no purpose for hunting, whatsoever," Moran claimed. "If you went hunting with this, you would not have any trophy. All you'd have left would be some pieces of fur and hoof."
Burtt refuted Moran's assertion.
"I know a lot of people who hunt with the .50 BMG," Burtt said, noting that many people pursue elk, bear and other large game animals with the rifles. "When a .50 caliber round hits a large animal like that, it has tremendous knock-down power. But, it does nothing more than put a half-inch hole into the animal and knock it down.
"This is just somebody who, obviously, has no knowledge, whatsoever, about the hunting capabilities of these firearms making statements that are completely inaccurate," Burtt added.
U.S. Rep. Carolyn McCarthy (D-N.Y.), whose husband was murdered and son wounded by a gunman on a Long Island commuter train in 1993, contributed to Moran's "no legitimate use" argument.
"This has nothing to do with the Second Amendment. This has nothing to do with taking away the right of someone to have a gun to protect themselves [sic]," McCarthy said.
Gottlieb disagreed.
"As far as Carolyn McCarthy is concerned, the Second Amendment doesn't protect any firearm," Gottlieb said. "If she had her wishes, she'd classify every firearm under a foot long as a 'Saturday Night Special,' and ban it, and characterize every gun over a foot long as an 'assault weapon,' and ban it also."
McCarthy and her anti-gun colleagues are using a "divide and conquer" strategy, according to Gottlieb, to disarm law-abiding Americans.
"If you pick on one type of gun at a time and say, 'the Second Amendment doesn't protect it,' most gun owners who don't own that kind of gun won't get upset and she might get her legislation passed," Gottlieb explained. "Then, lo and behold, she'll come back for another gun the next time and another gun the next time until there are no guns left."
McCarthy's comments seemed to support Gottlieb's assessment as she attempted to further demonize the .50 caliber.
"Look at this thing," McCarthy urged. "Do you want this in your home? Do you want your children to play with this?"
Burtt said McCarthy's comment betrays her ignorance of firearms and their safe handling.
"I don't want any children 'playing' with firearms, and they shouldn't even be touching them without the supervision of an adult," Burtt said. "I can't believe a representative of our Congress would make a statement like that."
Gottlieb, however, said he was not surprised by McCarthy's comments.
"Nobody said that the opponents of gun ownership are intellectually honest," Gottlieb said. "As far as these members of Congress are concerned, there's no such thing as a good gun."
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29 September 2005, 22:31
Collinsquote:
Originally posted by Ingebrigt Polden:
If I remember correctly a Barrett M82A1 was used by the Davidianians at the Waco siege... but thats the only one I know of... But then again, I'm not from the states.
All in all, if one should ban calibres that are or could be used for criminal purposes, I would think that .22LR and 9x19mm would be some of the first ones to go, and not the .50.
The Davidians had 2 in their possesion. They were found unfired. That's the reason the US could not use Bradleys. They are vulnerable in a couple of spots.
103,000 people died of infections they got in hospitals LAST YEAR. No one has been killed with a BMG in North America, EVER.
01 November 2006, 15:52
goneballisticquote:
Actually they are cheap to shoot. A guy had one at the range Saturday and he said he was getting 500 rounds for $65.
I'd hate to see what 500 rounds of .50 BMG he could get for $65 would look and perform like, unless he was buying it from a widow who didn't know any better. That's about what you might get for 500 rounds if you scrapped them out. I can load 100 rounds myself for $65, (
not including the brass) and I know the ammo won't blow me up. I've seen pictures of .50 BMG case heads that looked like works of Picasso, brass flowing this way and that. Something goes wrong, one weakness somewhere, and it can get real dramatic.
04 November 2006, 00:59
goneballisticDwight,
500 rounds of .50 BMG ammo is a lot of ammo. We are talking about 130 lbs of it.
Fact of the matter is, a .50 BMG has gotten less expensive to own and to shoot than it was 10 or 15 years ago. But owning and shooting a .50 BMG is not cheap to do. Everything you use, scopes, mounts, everything, has to be top notch, or it won't hold up. Many are the .50 BMG owners who buy their rifle, only to shoot it a couple times. Then it sits in the safe, waiting for the day the owner's friends get tired of hearing about the time or 2 it got taken to the range. In order to accomplish anything meaningfull with these rifles, the investment will be
big, both in terms of money and time. What do I mean by "meaningfull"? I mean being able to sit down at the bench and then to know what you're shooting, well enough to group respectably on paper or to engage accurately a chosen target, like a gong or whatever, at various long ranges, on to at
least out to 700 yards. And that's just the basics. Another thing, .50 BMG friendly ranges can be hard to come by. And 1000 yard ranges that allow .50 BMG are even harder to find. I drive 85 miles each way to my range and I consider myself lucky. Real lucky.
You can get cheap imported surplus ammo for around $1 a round, but at best it's just good for making noise, at worst it's dangerous. .50 BMG Bolt action rifles do not handle machine gun ammo well, the stuff is too hot. Knowing the origin, quality, and pressure level of the .50 BMG ammo you are shooting, in the rifle you are shooting it in, is essential, at least in my book.
