Two questions on accuracy

09 September 2002, 05:30

<Fireball>

One 1- 1.5 groups for all fqctory stuff

Custom Barrels.......1/4-3/4 depending on the caliber......1/4-1/2 for the very accurate rds such as 6mmbr and such. As for the others like 44 mag 357Max I would say 1/2 to 3/4
if a custom barrel will not shoot this good then it is a HUGE waste of money since most factory barrels WILL shoot 1-1.5 groups.

rechambers?? depends on the bore condition but I would say almost as Good....sometimes better than than the custom stuff....depends on the brand of blank and the bore condition.

And seems to me that 1" groups are Pleanty good for most hunting situations...but we always are searching for better???? That is why we pay more for a custom barrel?

Fireball [Eek!]

09 September 2002, 08:02

tommyn

I have had three 223 barrels and three 7TCU barrels factory that I got under one half inch at 100 yards, 5 shots. The first thing to help my accuracy was a scope with PA adjustments, second thing was a Hart accuracy assest. (three and half inch steel plate) mounted to forearm and the third was using Bench rest bullets, case prep and loading with BR dies. I haven't ever shot a custom barrel but that is going to change as soon as I get the 221 fireball barrel from VV. I have high hopes for it IMHO

09 September 2002, 08:22

Sean VHA #60013

quote:
Originally posted by Jules:
[QB]Just for the record.
In inches...For a three shot group at 100yds. What do you consider to be good enough for any reason? QB]

From a factory gun or barrel, 1" period. Anything over that and I get bored with it and get rid of it fast. This is why I really have very few personal factory barrels: they are for the most part simply not up to this standard, and what is so sad is that with but a little more care in the making, many COULD be better. .

From a custom gun or barrel? A half inch is ok, but in a .22 or smaller caliber, or something in any caliber that I intend to use Varmint hunting [which is practically everything I shoot] I prefer 1/4 minimum groups. Anything over that and it becomes marginal on smaller Varmints out to 250-300 yards. AND it must be able to do so with a variety of loads, and not simply ONE particular load.

The only factory barrel I have that holds this above custom barrel standard is my 14" T/C SS Match 22lr. Prone, bipod extended, elevation "wedge" under the grip, and with my scope dialed in to 40x, I can take a turtle's head at 100yrds with regularity [Big Grin]

I have only ever had one other factory barrel to exhibit such accuracy, and that was the typically bad T/C 14" 223. With Hornady 40grn V-Max, it would hold it's groups at an 1/8th inch at 100, but with anything heavier than 45 grns, groups suffered severely.

The Bellm chambered 14" VVCG 223 appears to have similar capabilities, easily grouping 1/4" with the same Hornady ammo, yet it also likes the heavier bullets up to 55grns. Anything over 55 and accuracy again suffers.

I think the Bellm 17HRM 14" Contender barrel in the works (a re-liner project) will be a likely candidate for long range rimfire varminting, as is the 14" 22mag Bellm rechamber Contender barrel, which at 1/8" groups at 100 yards has to be the best $68.00 I have ever spent (rechamber, crown, at 2000's rates, and I got the barrel in a trade for practically NOTHING)Now what I really want is to get this guy out to 200 yrds... [Big Grin]

09 September 2002, 09:40

Mike Bellm

Good graphics Sean, pond rat and all. [Big Grin]

Subject of acceptable accuracy MUST extend FAR beyond the barrel.

I have had one fellow get pee poor accuracy from a barrel, hand it to the next fellow, and it would practically stack bullets end to end. This has happened many times. But I had come to the conclusion that accuracy guarantees are pretty useless long before getting into TC barrels. There are just too many variables, not the least of which is the user himself.

Parallax in scopes is a big factor.

Reloading dies are a bigger factor than many people realize, and this is the reason I focused on the throat. The throat does a lot to overcome misalignment in the neck of the case itself and misalignment in the bullet as seated in the case. This is what runout guaging setups are for, but probably not one shooter in 1000 has one.

Reloading dies are very, very much a limiting factor in what level of accuracy is possible from any barrel from any source.

I have seen fellows put over $2K into a benchrest rifle and have it scatter shots worse than a '94 Win. .30/30, just to keep things in perspective.

Forend bedding continues to be a dilema, and it can make or break a barrel.... sometimes even faster than size die adjustment.

What should one expect? Across the board for general use, any barrel worth keeping should keep 'em hovering around 1" at 100 yds. But it depends on the situation. I know the old Savage 720 shotgun with slugs I took with me for bear a few weeks ago sure won't do 1" even at 50 yards. But I did not pursue the shotgun with accuracy in mind. That was not my expectation.

So I think the question should be refined a bit to take into consideration the abilities of the shooter, the quality of the ammo his dies and equipment are CAPABLE of producing, and then relate this to the application.

If you are trying to split bullets at 660 yards like we did at Alliance, NE back in May, then you need all the accuracy you can squeeze out of a barrel. But zapping prairie dogs at several hundred yards leaves more leaway, of course, and a bull elk at 75 yards is another matter.

There is no reason to pay mega bucks if accuracy is your goal only to bust sticks in the brush hoping to thread a bullet into a running elk. On the other hand, if you are a good still hunter and need the accuracy to, again, thread a bullet through an opening for a head, spine, or heart shot, then your expectations should be higher, as well as the expectation to spend more $$ to help assure it happening.

To simply set an acceptable limit for a barrel's accuracy level, you must set limits for determining what that level is in the first place.

Then you must relate the level of accuracy required to the application.

Mike