20 March 2004, 05:59
HobieQuote:
So the photos they show are false advertising ? That's pretty poor.
Not exactly false advertising. They just don't show many views of the reverse where you can tell that the blades are fabricated from sheet steel and the socket is a formed around a mandrel. Cold Steel has several products fabricated that way. It is the only way they can get them made to sell at those prices.
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Puma of Germany also made boar spears and these looked very well made with good blades and stag antler cross-guards but cost several thousand dollars. According to Puma when I contacted them they were more intended to be wall hangers than actually used.
Hatari Times also was selling boar spears at one time but getting info on actually buying one was scetchy when I enquired. Harald was probably the man to speak too and was probably off in Africa or somewhere.
I've seen a Puma spear head. It was BEAUTIFUL.
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I think a custom head may be the thing.
I think that is the way to go. You can get a better value.
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These sorts of boar spear were made to be used on foot.
The British officer pig sticking lances you speak of were designed for use from horse back I believe and did not have the cross-guard. I believe Century Arms is selling the heads at least, that is at least what their web site advertises.
I was only just thinking what sort of banboo or cane would be required for a lance. Do you know if this cane is available somewhere in Oz? Perhaps up your way somewhere? I even thought of raiding (asking) at a Botantic Garden.
If you can see if the store you mention has them it would be much appreciated. Also do you know of any sources of info on the lances you also mention? Thanks.
European military lances of the late 19th and early 20th centuries were hafted with bamboo. I don't think they intended to withdraw their lances once they had penetrated a target with them, at least from horseback. I've got a German WWI lance with shaft and it isn't a bamboo shaft but a painted hardwood of some type, but I think that was the exception. You probably will. You might want to have a supply of replacement hafts...
There are several ways to fabricate the socket, integral with or welded to the blade and crossbar. I think what you are using to haft it might have some influence on the socket design so you might want to make that decision first. I don't know what species they used but I'll try to find out for you.
The point doesn't have to be as finely finished as the Puma to be functional. It does need higher resistance to shock than a knife blade (so might not have as high a Rockwell as a knife blade).
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I found some more info:
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The lances used in the British service are of two kinds, those with ash and those with bamboo staves. The latter are much preferred, the "male" bamboo being peculiarly tough and elastic. The time period makes a difference, ash and bamboo being specified at different times. The bamboo is one piece.
The lance is provided with a sling, through which the trooper passes his right arm when the lance is carried slung, the point of the steel shoe fitting into a bucket attached to the right stirrup, (sometimes both stirrups so that it could be carried on the left).
The steel shoe is a counterweight and ensures that the lance balances at the correct point. I believe that they were made in different weights.
Latterly a steel loop was provided on the carbine holder to put the lance through so it could be attached to the saddle by a small "D" loop on the lance when the trooper dismounted.
The red/white pennon originally had a practical function - it was to absord blood and stop it running down the shaft and making it slippery. The 16L pleated their pennons in commemoration of one battle where they were so stiff with blood that they had a pleated effect. Latterly they were removed on active service. The head is of the best steel. It is actually made from hollow steel and the flutes are pressed into it.
I have some pictures of the lance equipment, but I don't know how to post them here. I can send them direct to you.
David Webb on the Society of Military Horse Forum
and from the same forum:
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There were four primary Patterns of lance and a few sub variations and practice lances. The main four are Patterns 1860,1868,1885 and 1894.
All of them had an overall length of 9'. Weights of each model varied from about 3.5 to 5 pounds, primaily due to the difference in weights of the staves.
The stave diameter was roughly 1.5" but tapered towards the head and shoe. The bamboo staves are of course thickest at the shoe and taper toward the head.
The 1860 was ash, 1868 bamboo, 1885 same lance as 1868 but with ash stave, 1894 ash. The 1868/1885 seems to be the most commonly encountered one. They were certainly in service through WWI as my 1868 is dated 1915 and marked to the 17th Lancers. The heads are not hollow except the conical portion at the rear to accept the stave. Heads and shoes appear to have been left in the white from the examples I have seen. Plating would seem to be current a parade occurance. Realize though that a well polished steel head would appear to be plated. I haven't seen any of the currently used RCMP or other parade or demonstration lances so I really can't say if they are plated.
The 1860 and 1894 have one style of head, the 1868/1885 another. The 1885 was pretty much a reversion to the 1860. There were also variations in the size and configuration of the sling, bamboo lances had a leather protector on the lower half and some of the models had a brass D attached.
Ian Skennerton's British Service Sword and Lance Patterns gives one page of drawings of the four models. His List of Changes also has several descriptions of the various models and changes. All the books are available from Service Publications and the owner Clive Law is excellent to deal with.
I hope this is of some help.
Reese
and again:
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I measured my 1915 dated bamboo lance last night -
Lenth o/a 9' 4"
Head is 12.5"
Shoe is 7"
It is not obvious how far the the bamboo goes into the metal, particularly as the bamboo is hollow.
Point of balance is 49" up
Bamboo tapers from 1" to 1.375"
Weight is 3lb 9oz, which is at the light end of the range.
My info is that the heads (some at least) are not actually hollow, but formed by crushing a tube in a press. I can't place the source for that just now. Also that the heads were bright polished (for intimidation purposes, presumably). Contempory reports talk of a "gleaming hedge of steel".
Because of the variable nature of bamboo, to get it to come out right there were 7 sizes of head and 4 of shoe. The weight could vary a lot, from 3lb 4oz to 5lb 11oz. The crucial thing seemed to be to get the point of balance right - mine seems to be 2 or 3 inches point heavy. (As mine is dated a long time after the LOC things might have evolved?)
The D is actually 15" below the sling.
I forget to mention that the hook goes on the coat strap, or the strap around the offside wallet. I can find a drawing if anyone is interested.
David Webb
and then finally:
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There is a publication by Ian Sketterton available in Australia which lists the different versions of the lance and the different lengths. Victoria BArracks Historical SOciety in BRisbane should have a copy.
This should be quite enough to get you started and provides additional fabrication method information. You can readily adapt this info to your boar spear by shortening the shaft and adding the crossbar. Remember, razor sharp AND some sort of sheath might be in order.
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