The Accurate Reloading Forums
Germanwings, what happened . . .
25 March 2015, 19:39
MJinesGermanwings, what happened . . .
Curious what the current and former commercial pilots think might have happened on this flight. The relatively long time between when the descent started and when the plane crashed with no apparent communications with air traffic controllers seems odd to me. Sure the radios might have been out, but what would have caused that? No apparent transponder squawk indicating a problem. If everything happened in seconds or even just a couple of minutes that would be one thing. Here it was something like eight minutes. Curious what folks are speculating happened.
Mike
25 March 2015, 19:43
Opus1We will know what the CVR has to reveal in a few days. Hopefully the FDR is also quickly recovered. Without data and knowing what was happening in the cockpit, there's just a lot of speculation flying around.
Sad events...
___________________
Just Remember, We ALL Told You So.
26 March 2015, 06:18
ftg767
Another suicide...one of the pilots was out of the cockpit and could not get back in...all that is heard on the CVR is his knocking and knocking and banging and banging....trying to get back in...ala Malaysia....can't wait to see how the psych profile on this guy turns out!
26 March 2015, 06:36
Grizzly Adamsquote:
Originally posted by Opus1:
We will know what the CVR has to reveal in a few days. Hopefully the FDR is also quickly recovered. Without data and knowing what was happening in the cockpit, there's just a lot of speculation flying around.
Sad events...
Sounds like they just found an empty box.
thought those things were supposed to be indestructible.
Grizz
Indeed, no human being has yet lived under conditions which, considering the prevailing climates of the past, can be regarded as normal. John E Pfeiffer, The Emergence of Man
Those who can't skin, can hold a leg. Abraham Lincoln
Only one war at a time. Abe Again.
26 March 2015, 07:16
MJinesquote:
Originally posted by ftg767:
Another suicide...one of the pilots was out of the cockpit and could not get back in...all that is heard on the CVR is his knocking and knocking and banging and banging....trying to get back in...ala Malaysia....can't wait to see how the psych profile on this guy turns out!
I saw that same report. I sure hope that is not what happened, a suicide/homicide. Perhaps the pilot in the cockpit suffered a stroke or heart attack. The result is the same but certainly it would easier for the families to deal with. Pity.
Mike
I speculate that there was major error flight control input directives given from the aircrafts AFS
due to something like false readings received from faulty ASI,AOA sensors.
then Add some lacklustre poor procedure by the pilot.
ITs sister jet last yr, has a nose dive incident from 31,000, but the crew were soon onto it and corrected.
a safety system designed to protect the jet had reacted to incorrect data due to blocked AOA probes.
26 March 2015, 13:14
Opus1The CVR sure points to something other than pilot error or mechanical and more like suicide.
Not the first time and won't be the last that a pilot decides to take his life along with everyone else. Hopefully the FDR will shed more light on what the pilot in command was doing.
Sad.
___________________
Just Remember, We ALL Told You So.
26 March 2015, 17:44
MJinesLooks like they are now saying the co-pilot intentionally crashed the plane. Truly tragic.
Mike
Better start serious psych tests on all flight crews and prevent the copycat actions !!
27 March 2015, 03:31
PeterWhen I board, if I see the pilot I always ask if he is having a good day. They are always amused!
Peter.
Be without fear in the face of your enemies. Be brave and upright, that God may love thee. Speak the truth always, even if it leads to your death. Safeguard the helpless and do no wrong;
Normally the pilot can punch in an emergency entry code that allows him to enter to a locked flight deck,
but the co-pilot deployed a '5 minute override' ...which means the captains attempt at punching in an entry code had no effect.
27 March 2015, 05:32
BobsterIt won't be long now for calls to have a totally automated cockpit. Eliminate pilots all together. Would you fly in a plane under total computer control? Maybe with quadruple redundant controls.
27 March 2015, 09:38
surestrikeYou guys have it all figured out.
27 March 2015, 14:09
Opus1Lubitz had a problem with depression all the way back to 2008 and was reportedly still receiving mental health support up until this week's crash AND he recently was dumped by his girlfriend and having a "crisis".
Geeee, I'm no aviation expert but Lubitz was a predictable imminent trainwreck. Why is anyone within Lufthansa even remotely surprised that Lubitz was an excellent candidate for suicide? He shouldn't have been anywhere near sharp objects much less an aircraft full of passengers.
Lufthansa is about to write 149 very large checks. Their lack of oversight is bordering criminal.
___________________
Just Remember, We ALL Told You So.
27 March 2015, 16:41
DCS Memberquote:
Originally posted by Opus1:
Lubitz had a problem with depression all the way back to 2008 and was reportedly still receiving mental health support up until this week's crash AND he recently was dumped by his girlfriend and having a "crisis".
Geeee, I'm no aviation expert but Lubitz was a predictable imminent trainwreck. Why is anyone within Lufthansa even remotely surprised that Lubitz was an excellent candidate for suicide? He shouldn't have been anywhere near sharp objects much less an aircraft full of passengers.
Lufthansa is about to write 149 very large checks. Their lack of oversight is bordering criminal.
It may just be a Texan thing, but "man up" comes to mind.
I'm very sad about the tragedy. Yes, mentally unstable people should not be allowed to decide the fate of 149 others.
I meant to be DSC Member...bad typing skills.
Marcus Cady
DRSS
27 March 2015, 20:39
surestrikequote:
Originally posted by Peter:
When I board, if I see the pilot I always ask if he is having a good day. They are always amused!
Peter.
Peter,
Just in case you think that is original, cute or witty. Just FYI, I and every pilot in uniform gets asked that about 50 times a week on average. It is just one of the extremely common and extremely stupid things people say when they go to the airport.
On the common stupid comment list it ranks number 3. Here is sampling of the top five stupid comments we hear while in uniform at the airport;
1. What route do you fly?
2. I hope you slept well last night?
3. So are YOU havin' a good day?
4. Have you ever seen a UFO?
5. My uncle Ralph is in the "airlines" do you know him?
It is "amusing" all right, which is why you'll get one of two reactions. The fake, overconfident, airline pilot smile and a big, you bet, doing great! Or the sideways glance, biting the tongue, curt one word answer. Both of which translate to, get the hell out of here, loser...
Because I know that you don't realize this I'll explain it in simple terms. Pre departure is an extremely busy time for us on the flight deck. We handle interruptions like your "cute" little comment as quickly and professionally as possible, but it is a major PITA having passive aggressive jokers like you coming up and bugging us when we are busy.
Just FYI...
28 March 2015, 05:40
friarmeiersurestrike, next time someone asks you one of your top five, why don't you just tell them how you really feel?
Every job has its pitas...but it sure beats the alternative, if you know what I mean.
friar
Our liberties we prize, and our rights we will maintain.
28 March 2015, 05:49
PeterWell surestrike, I guess I must have hit a nerve. These guys were certainly NOT busy, they were standing there smiling at everyone who came on board. I was certainly not interrupting their busy pre departure routine, at least not as near as I could tell!
Perhaps I shouldn't tell you my other question, but seeing as I have you in the right mood I will: "You've done this before, right?". Generally the answer is a smile and a "Yeah, once or twice", although occasionally, but not from someone like you I will get: "No, first time, but I read a REALLY good book!"
I am sure you would not appreciate it from a schmuck like me, but I also make a point of complementing the pilot when he executes a REALLY smooth landing. He is generally not there, but the flight attendants seem to appreciate it. But, perhaps they are just " the sideways glance, biting the tongue, curt one word answer. Both of which translate to, get the hell out of here, loser... "
I always thought that if someone were providing a service, then they would appreciate it when someone acknowledged their professionalism and a job well done, but I understand my mistake now. Thanks for enlightening me! I will remember this next time I fly.
Peter.
Be without fear in the face of your enemies. Be brave and upright, that God may love thee. Speak the truth always, even if it leads to your death. Safeguard the helpless and do no wrong;
28 March 2015, 06:08
surestrikequote:
It won't be long now for calls to have a totally automated cockpit. Eliminate pilots all together. Would you fly in a plane under total computer control? Maybe with quadruple redundant controls.
Bobster,
Are you sure that is such a good idea?
http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/...f1c_story.htmlQuote:
quote:
Reliability has long been the Achilles’ heel of drones. Although they malfunction less often than they used to, they still crash at a higher rate than other military aircraft. Of the 269 Predators acquired by the Air Force over the past two decades, more than half have wrecked in major accidents, records show.
How do you think a 50% mortality rate would sit with the flying public?
28 March 2015, 07:01
surestrikePeter,
There is a huge difference between saying hi to somebody and inquiring about their day in a friendly conversational tone and making a smart ass comment. If I misread your intent I apologize.
quote:
Perhaps I shouldn't tell you my other question, but seeing as I have you in the right mood I will: "You've done this before, right?". Generally the answer is a smile and a "Yeah, once or twice", although occasionally, but not from someone like you I will get: "No, first time, but I read a REALLY good book!"
My standard answer for that is;
No worries I looked at the cartoons in the instruction manual just this morning.
28 March 2015, 07:41
friarmeierI just remembered that great commercial...
"No. But I did stay at a Super 8 last night"
Our liberties we prize, and our rights we will maintain.
28 March 2015, 07:57
xgruntquote:
Originally posted by surestrike:
quote:
Originally posted by Peter:
When I board, if I see the pilot I always ask if he is having a good day. They are always amused!
Peter.
Peter,
Just in case you think that is original, cute or witty. Just FYI, I and every pilot in uniform gets asked that about 50 times a week on average. It is just one of the extremely common and extremely stupid things people say when they go to the airport.
On the common stupid comment list it ranks number 3. Here is sampling of the top five stupid comments we hear while in uniform at the airport;
1. What route do you fly?
2. I hope you slept well last night?
3. So are YOU havin' a good day?
4. Have you ever seen a UFO?
5. My uncle Ralph is in the "airlines" do you know him?
It is "amusing" all right, which is why you'll get one of two reactions. The fake, overconfident, airline pilot smile and a big, you bet, doing great! Or the sideways glance, biting the tongue, curt one word answer. Both of which translate to, get the hell out of here, loser...
Because I know that you don't realize this I'll explain it in simple terms. Pre departure is an extremely busy time for us on the flight deck. We handle interruptions like your "cute" little comment as quickly and professionally as possible, but it is a major PITA having passive aggressive jokers like you coming up and bugging us when we are busy.
Just FYI...
It looks like this crash proved there can be POS pilots just like there are POS passengers.
28 March 2015, 08:04
surestrikeBat shit crazy POS pilots at that....
quote:
Originally posted by surestrike:
quote:
It won't be long now for calls to have a totally automated cockpit. Eliminate pilots all together. Would you fly in a plane under total computer control? Maybe with quadruple redundant controls.
Bobster,
Are you sure that is such a good idea?
http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/...f1c_story.htmlQuote:
quote:
Reliability has long been the Achilles’ heel of drones. Although they malfunction less often than they used to, they still crash at a higher rate than other military aircraft. Of the 269 Predators acquired by the Air Force over the past two decades, more than half have wrecked in major accidents, records show.
How do you think a 50% mortality rate would sit with the flying public?
As many of you know, I retired early from NWA as a B757 Captain because of a neck injury. You have may seen me on TV or quoted as an "expert" after several high profile incidents/accidents.
What you don't know is now that I can legally fly again, I am doing ISR flying in the sandbox. It only took me one "dodge" of a lost link drone gone wild to know that people will never want to fly in pilotless airplanes. When the drone controllers tell you to get out of the way...you do, RIGHT NOW!
Engineers and science reporters can hype them all day long, the traveling public will not knowingly fly on them.
28 March 2015, 19:20
stubbleduck47I have a very basic problem with the concept of an individual, or a computer with pre-programmed instructions, operating a passenger carrying aircraft from a remote location. There is no way such a system can have all the information available to a pilot actually sitting in the aircraft.
ATP and a few thousand hours in the front seat.
29 March 2015, 03:07
Bobsterquote:
Originally posted by surestrike:
quote:
It won't be long now for calls to have a totally automated cockpit. Eliminate pilots all together. Would you fly in a plane under total computer control? Maybe with quadruple redundant controls.
Bobster,
Are you sure that is such a good idea?
http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/...f1c_story.htmlQuote:
quote:
Reliability has long been the Achilles’ heel of drones. Although they malfunction less often than they used to, they still crash at a higher rate than other military aircraft. Of the 269 Predators acquired by the Air Force over the past two decades, more than half have wrecked in major accidents, records show.
How do you think a 50% mortality rate would sit with the flying public?
No, it's not my cup of tea. But I do foresee calls to do it. Everyone I have asked about this scenario flatly said they wouldn't fly w/o a human pilot. I don't blame them. I have though ridden the automated shuttles at several airports but did feel a little uncomfortable. So I guess there is no frickin' way I would do it in an airplane! Remember too, that drones are flying in a hostile environment. They are being shot at and subjected to electronic countermeasures which could have a great effect on the failure rates.
How about this "what if" scenario: We follow the lead of The Star Trek Federation and equip all FBW aircraft with a combination console code that could be used to over-ride the cockpit controls? Just like Captain Kirk did in "Wrath of Khan", the code could allow another console to take control of an aircraft from a rogue pilot. An auxiliary transmitter could be placed in the tail of the aircraft that would require at least a minimum of two crew members to issue a distress call requesting cockpit lockout. The airline headquarters could then have the plane flown remotely to hopefully a safe landing. I'd accept 50:50 odds over zero!
Lots of interesting ideas and suggestions. Why not do the no cost proven to work one?
In the US and a few other countries, when a pilot leaves the flight deck, a flight attendant or other pilot will come up while they are gone. That crew member then let's the pilot back in at the proper time. It brings obvious other benefits, creating a no lone zone so to speak.
It's simple, free and it already works.
29 March 2015, 18:35
surestrikeJust got a memo at work that the 2 person rule is of right now implemented in the EU.
Biggest problem as I see it was that the two doctors ,who saw he had mental and emotional problems, were NOT permitted to tell the airline !!!
Why then bother to have the doctors examine him ??
31 March 2015, 09:08
surestrikeYep there was major failure in the system there. I don't know what the German regulations are but in the US. If a Doctor discovers a medical issue that is grounding they are required by law to report it to the FAA.
04 April 2015, 11:43
A7Davequote:
Originally posted by surestrike:
quote:
Originally posted by Peter:
When I board, if I see the pilot I always ask if he is having a good day. They are always amused!
Peter.
Peter,
Just in case you think that is original, cute or witty. Just FYI, I and every pilot in uniform gets asked that about 50 times a week on average. It is just one of the extremely common and extremely stupid things people say when they go to the airport.
On the common stupid comment list it ranks number 3. Here is sampling of the top five stupid comments we hear while in uniform at the airport;
1. What route do you fly?
2. I hope you slept well last night?
3. So are YOU havin' a good day?
4. Have you ever seen a UFO?
5. My uncle Ralph is in the "airlines" do you know him?
It is "amusing" all right, which is why you'll get one of two reactions. The fake, overconfident, airline pilot smile and a big, you bet, doing great! Or the sideways glance, biting the tongue, curt one word answer. Both of which translate to, get the hell out of here, loser...
Because I know that you don't realize this I'll explain it in simple terms. Pre departure is an extremely busy time for us on the flight deck. We handle interruptions like your "cute" little comment as quickly and professionally as possible, but it is a major PITA having passive aggressive jokers like you coming up and bugging us when we are busy.
Just FYI...
Don't forget "Sir, will you please take my bag?" I used to tell them I'm not a Skycap. What was I thinking? Now that I'm a captain, I'll take the bag and take the tip.
Dave