I really love an appreciate you European hunters

28 November 2007, 20:26

quote:
Originally posted by Guillermo Amestoy:
quote:
Originally posted by peterdk:

guillermo.

off course you can find lousy places in spain as you can everywhere else, dont disregard a nation on some second hand info that i think you misunderstood.

I never generalized. I say "No all" Europeans Hunters are Jaegermeister".
then it must be the language barriere or your personal style in writing because it seems to me that this is what you do in all of your posts
No, but there are a excelent american rifle manufacturers not only junk as somebody say!!!
opinons wary i find that if prices are equal the better ones are still european but i like some us rifles i wouldent want my win 94 to be made by anybody else.
Regarding those "Monterias" and the two follow question;
Why today exist some many wild animal breeders (Red stags, Mouflon, Wildboards, African plain games etc....) only with conservancy pourposse???

In one publication, the farm breeder say" we provide certified SCI gold medalls tropies"

Just for meat?, or breeding and release? common
better blood in the herd if you got a nice population of red deer with shit trophys then it is nice to get new blood in

dont cry for me argentina.......

Sorry you are insulting all those Argentine warrior that fight and Die in the Malvinas War (Facklands Island) when you mention that song!!i dident know that my appoligies to the ones i offended if Im , You are a ignorant too!!!yes i am, i dont know everything, but i tend to ask instead of just dropping a turd in the punch bowl.
Late I will post a publication: who wants to see, take a look , who want to ignore, do the best for you

Regards Guillermo.

28 November 2007, 21:07

Fallow Buck

Bored Now.....

28 November 2007, 23:29

peterdk

now why dident you just say that instead.

then we agree totally.

fond regards

peter

29 November 2007, 00:31

Guillermo Amestoy

quote:
Originally posted by peterdk:
now why dident you just say that instead.

then we agree totally.

fond regards

peter

Maybe nobody understood my poor english, Sorry if I ofended someone, not was my intention and never intended to generalize about Euro Hunters, But I wish that somebody admit that the hunt is becoming more a bussines and the ethic is being lost.This gave me an idea to the next post.I will be only an expectator, to learn about all of you. Kind Regards: Guillermo

29 November 2007, 02:11

quote:
Originally posted by zzWop:
Goran
The only "game" you can hunt is deer and there is plenty of it...

... So put on a pair of khaki shorts and come over.

Thanks, I may do so some day!

29 November 2007, 03:09

Pete E

Gents please keep the posts in English...

29 November 2007, 06:40

billinthewild

[/QUOTE]

".....But I wish that somebody admit that the hunt is becoming more a bussines and the ethic is being lost......" Guillermo[/QUOTE]

Before I comment let me say that I am a Life Member of SCI and proud of it, it is a fine organization and has done more to promote game conservation than any like group that I know of. And SCI strongly encourages ethical hunting, and does penalize reported unethical behavior by its members. That said one need only read the SCI publications, or attend the conventions of it or any other hunting group and you will realize that hunting has become, in large measure, a business. Far too much emphasis on the trophy and the tape measure than the experience and the enjoyment of the outdoor world we have worked so hard to conserve and protect.

As a society, both in our country and elsewhere, there will always be some to whom ethical behavior is ignored...hunters, lawyers, journalists (probably the worst), writers, politicians, etc. It is a sad commentary but I do not believe it is the norm in the hunting community.

29 November 2007, 08:11

NitroX

quote:
Originally posted by Nickudu:
It is sad to see so honest an expression of general admiration come to this.

29 November 2007, 09:30

billrquimby

The only country I have hunted in Europe was Spain, where I hunted on Ricardo Medem's El CastaÃ±o estate in the Toledo Mountains when we both were a lot younger. I shot a Spanish stag by stalking and a wild boar from a stand. I also participated in a small monteria, but did not get a shot at the only boar that dashed across the fire break where I was stationed.

Although I have not hunted elsewhere in Europe, I am familiar with the traditions of the chase in many of the countries there. I am bothered by their "medal fees," and the fact that bears and other game are shot from baited "high seats," and sometimes at night. (I don't like what goes on in Texas and elsewhere in some U.S. states, either). I particularly do not like the practice of saving the finest specimens for dignitaries and royalty.

I prefer the hunting in my own state of Arizona, where 82 percent of the land is in some form of public ownership, where I can drive a couple hours from home and climb a hill on BLM or Forest Service land, sit down with my binoculars and locate and evaluate the game before I go after it, and not have to ask a landowner for permission to do so. The size of my trophy depends entirely upon my ability as a hunter to locate, stalk, and kill the animal. I don't need a gamekeeper or guide. More often than not I hunt alone, but there is something to say about having a friend with me, especially when I need help to get an animal to a road.

I am thankful that I am allowed to own too many rifles, shotguns, and handguns, which I do, and not have to report what I have to anyone. My wife would argue with anyone who claims i buy only the cheapest equipment, but she would agree that I will never make a fashion statement with the apparel I wear when I go hunting. I can truthfully say I have never had a problem with any of the many Rugers, Winchesters, Weatherbys, and Remingtons that I own.

There's always a first time, I guess ...

Bill

29 November 2007, 14:50

IanF

Bill

All great and valid points, which mirror my own preferences and feelings.

I guess that we in the 'older' countries without your public access to game will envy some of your freedoms.

At the end of the day - if game access is privately owned - it has a fiscal value. Then the spirit of capitalism comes into play and a market is formed - but one that is purely based upon supply and demand!

Rgds Ian

29 November 2007, 16:20

DUK

quote:
Originally posted by billrquimby:
I prefer the hunting in my own state of Arizona, where 82 percent of the land is in some form of public ownership, where I can drive a couple hours from home and climb a hill on BLM or Forest Service land, sit down with my binoculars and locate and evaluate the game before I go after it, and not have to ask a landowner for permission to do so.

Bill, yes, indeed. This is something that makes you guys over there indeed privileged. I had the chance to live and hunt in N. America, Fewer game than over here, sometimes very short seasons, more than compensated by these huge amounts of incredibly beautifull and huntable landscape.

I guess we can be quite happy on both sides of the big pond, with or without monterÃas...

29 November 2007, 22:21

billrquimby

<<<<<<"At the end of the day - if game access is privately owned - it has a fiscal value. Then the spirit of capitalism comes into play and a market is formed - but one that is purely based upon supply and demand! Rgds Ian">>>>>>

Ian: Capitalism really comes into play in Europe and Africa, where wildlife must sing for its supper (as author Ron Thomson says), but that's because there is no tradition of hunting by masses of ordinary citizens as there is in the U.S. and Canada. Here, millions of sportsmen pay for wildlife conservation programs and the game belongs to everyone. It does not belong to nor is it managed by the landowner.

<<<<<"I had the chance to live and hunt in N. America, Fewer game than over here, sometimes very short seasons, more than compensated by these huge amounts of incredibly beautifull and huntable landscape.">>>>.

Yes, seasons can be short, but the quantity of game depends upon what type of game, and where it's found. I have seen close to 3,000 pronghorn antelope in a single day during a good year in Wyoming, and I can show you 200 elk most days in August near my summer home in eastern Arizona ... and sometimes closer to 800 on the best days. These are on public lands. And yes, it would be difficult to beat our landscape, especially in the Rocky Mountain West.

I've hunted on six continents, and I feel blessed to live where I don't need to be wealthy to hunt, or have to put up with a government that denies I have a right to own firearms.

Bill Quimby

30 November 2007, 13:02

DUK

Bill,

I saw parts of the mountain range you are referring to, in places like Sonora, N. MÃ©xico, Arizona, Colorado and Alberta. Incredibly beautiful. My dream is to one day go over there and hunt on public land. If it wasn't for that bunch of children of ours who literally eat the hair off our heads, I'd done that already long time ago.

The only thing that would scary me a little is that I wouldn't be able to make proper use of the venison I migth harvest.

30 November 2007, 18:42

GAHUNTER

DUK

I can guarantee that if you come here to hunt, folks on this board will take care of you and your venison. If you can't take it back to Germany (don't know your laws on importing meat), somebody would take care of processing it and eating it (or giving it to charity). Unfortunately, I live in Georgia, which is about 2,000 kilometers from western public lands, but I don't think you would have any problems getting volunteers to help.

30 November 2007, 18:59

DUK

Yes, the problem is indeed laws, without a veterinary certificate you better keep that venison well frozen&and wrapped in soem thock sweaters (for insulation) and hidden in your luggage, method I was told by Argentinian friends who like to bring some tasty "bife de chorizo" for BBQ when visiting.

I remember now that giving venison to charity is quite common over there, I just do not want to let it spoil out there.

30 November 2007, 19:16

Fallow Buck

I think the organisiations set up to use venison for charity or feeding the homeless etc are some of th most commendable organisations I've heard of in the world of hunting. I think if something like that was available in countries where hunting was less widely received, it would go a long way to increasing it's public appeal and profile.

Good on the guys that run it and the guys that donate the venison.

Rgds,
FB

30 November 2007, 23:34

billrquimby

<<<<<<<<<Bill, I saw parts of the mountain range you are referring to, in places like Sonora, N. MÃ©xico, Arizona, Colorado and Alberta. Incredibly beautiful. My dream is to one day go over there and hunt on public land. If it wasn't for that bunch of children of ours who literally eat the hair off our heads, I'd done that already long time ago. The only thing that would scary me a little is that I wouldn't be able to make proper use of the venison I migth harvest. DUK >>>>>>>>

As the others have said, there would be no problem utilizing your venison, and not just through Sportsmen Against Hunger programs. Don't stop dreaming of coming over here. At 71, I can tell you from experience that you only have to blink your eyes and your children are grown and on their own. Enjoy them while you can.

Bill Quimby

01 December 2007, 01:05

Dom

Quite an interesting post here, took me a while to digest it.

I grew up in Michigan so I know how the system works there, like said, very reasonable tags, tons of public hunting land, you shoot it and take it home and put it in the freezer. Also, the US hunting (safety?) courses can in no way be compared to the German hunting course. I will also say that to hunt one Elk out west with a reputable outfitter would have cost me more than a trip to Namibia and 10 animals.

Europe is different, and I will tell you, there's a lot of Americans here that have hunted, but if it's not in your blood you're not going to go through the effort to get a hunting license, weapons license, etc., and enjoy hunting here. Trophy fees are a fact, as well as the weight and tape measures. You are not going to change that, so you either pay or hunt private where there is no fee, or sit at home watching tv.

Africa is great. Forget the tape measure and weight, shoot a mature animal representing X species and this is the price. Pretty straight forward. A great place to experience and maybe the hunting gods will see to it that I return some day.

To close, I will say that all of us are making the best with what we have. I have learned a lot from the Euorpeans, and sometimes I cringe at what happens in the USA, just as I cringe over here sometimes. But, I'm not in your shoes, I have to live with my hunting standards. If hunters are fighting over who hunts out of a highseat or over bait, or at night, then we are doing no one any favors. If it is legal, then just because you don't agree with it does not mean it should all of a sudden be outlawed. Hunt how you want to and can hunt, and enjoy it!! Waidmannsheil, Dom.

01 December 2007, 03:51

Cazador humilde

As to Dom's last paragraph...Amen!

03 December 2007, 01:46

Chasseur

As an American who's lived in Europe and goes back there to hunt every year or so I'd have to echo those who love European hunting. Given my druthers I'd rather hunt in Europe than most of the US East of the Rockies.

However, just like its hard to generalize about European hunting because there are many country differences, its the same with all the regional and state differences in the US. In Hawaii while the gun laws are not great, we have some great year around hunting opportunities. Where I used to live in Virginia I was very underwhelmed by the hunting "opportunities": all the good land leased up, no wild upland game, short two or three week deer firearms seasons (with no hunting on Sundays), and almost all of the hunting from tree stands. Just not my cup of tea... Day rates for most outfits for private deer hunting or duck hunting was silly. Then we move over to where I grew up, Alaska, and we've got great hunting opportunities even though game densities are low. Plus you've got some of the best hunting scenery in the world!