375 H&H for Muntjac...

04 June 2003, 22:13

Got to love those police Firearms Licensing officers.

On my new 375 H&H - They would not authorise me to buy soft nose ammo to practice for African trips, so they authorised me to shoot UK deer with it - and in so doing they authorised me to buy soft nosed ammo for it!!!

Something wrong with the system here.... [Smile]

04 June 2003, 22:24

Mike375

Richard,

As you know we have discussed English gun laws on another thread and I asked about soft point and FMJ.

Do you think it is possible that the FMJ requirement for "range only" has come about because of Queens shoots and 303s etc where military ammo is used?

You have approval for the 375 H&H. Do you think you would have obtained approval for 340 Wby, 338/378 Wby, 375 Reminton Ultra or 378 Weatherby.

Mike

04 June 2003, 22:35

<martin f>

Richard, Mike,

I read the other thread, too.

To make this even more complicated (or funny?):
whenever I go to a GERMAN hunters shooting range, I read: NO SOLIDS
(maybe they are wooried about their backstops?)

Whenever I go to a SWISS military range, I hear: NO EXPANDING BULLETS (they are worried about their Polytronic targets)

Martin

04 June 2003, 22:37

British

quote:
Originally posted by Deerdogs:

On my new 375 H&H.....

What make of rifle did you go for? AND WHY [Smile]

04 June 2003, 22:39

Deerdogs

Mike,
If you quoted those calibres to a police firearms licensing officer they would not have a clue what you were talking about. An therein lies the problem IMHO. You could pretty much spin them anything you wanted, dress up the facts with smoke and mirrors and before you know it the 378 Weatherby would be toasting Muntjac.

The FMJ only thing is a recent development. in 97 when we had our worst school shooting (Dunblane) the shooter was using handguns with soft nosed ammo. The result was that a law was quickly passed banning all handguns and all soft nosed bullets.

As I recall the shooter was a bit of a fruit cake and if the police had done their job he would never had been granted a licence in the first place.

The law banning soft nosed ammunition contradicts an earlier law enacted for the protection of deer stating that ONLY soft nosed ammution can be used to kill deer. Clever blokes those politicians eh?

So in fact deer stalkers in the UK require a special condition on their licence allowing them the buy softnosed ammo for the purposes of activities connected with deer control. This can be read to include zeroing and practice.

Clear? [Big Grin]

04 June 2003, 22:48

Deerdogs

quote:
Originally posted by British:

quote:
Originally posted by Deerdogs:

On my new 375 H&H.....
What make of rifle did you go for? AND WHY

British

It is a custom job: Left handed Johannsen magnum Mauser double square bridge action. 23 inch barrel - quite stiff as I am a recoil pussy, English express sights with ivory flip over "Leopard" sight, H&H style detachable mounts for a Swarovski 1.25-4 power scope, classic English wood with red Silvers pad, buffalo fore end tip, barrel band sling swivel, minimal engraving.

I am going to shoot 300 grain Barnes X Bullets through it.

Should be ready in the Autumn. In time for the roe doe season [Big Grin]

04 June 2003, 22:53

Mike375

Richard and Martin,

The ranges run by our Sporting Shooters Association of Australia have a rule that FMJ is not to be used on the range. It is not policed but that is the rule.

What is a worry with gov't and the ever increasing regulations is that I am sure the lack of knowledge displayed with guns is also there in all other areas but these areas are ones in which you and I know very little about.

Mike

05 June 2003, 02:09

mho

quote:
Originally posted by Deerdogs:
It is a custom job: Left handed Johannsen magnum Mauser double square bridge action. 23 inch barrel - quite stiff as I am a recoil pussy, English express sights with ivory flip over "Leopard" sight, H&H style detachable mounts for a Swarovski 1.25-4 power scope, classic English wood with red Silvers pad, buffalo fore end tip, barrel band sling swivel, minimal engraving.
[/QB]

Deerdogs, that sounds like ONE NICE RIFLE! WOW! I suppose you'd better post a picture for your fellow shooters to salivate over! A Johannesen - of all things! [Smile]

- mike

05 June 2003, 02:29

Mike375

Richard,

That sure is the way to travel with the 375.

The only thing better would be a pair [Smile]

and the only thing better than that would be a pair of 375s and a pair of 300 H&Hs [Big Grin]

Great stuff.

Mike

05 June 2003, 02:38

Deerdogs

Mike and Mike - Thanks for you comments.

This rifle is going to be a real keeper and I do not mind forgoing the cost of a 10 day plainsgame trip to pay for it.

What I would like to do is pair it up with a 318WR for the two rifle Bushveld battery. A 300 H&H would be a good alternative but there is something about the 318 that appeals to me. It just looks like a killer.

Cheers

05 June 2003, 02:50

Mike375

Richard,

You need a 300 H&H to match the 375 and you could do the 318 on M98.

That would give you are perfect pair of H&Hs on a modern action and the 318 could be made to reproduce the original.

Left handed Johannsens in 300 H&H and 375 H&H almost make we want to change from being right handed.

I have never seen a Johannsen action in Australia but I imagine they would create a feeling of great relaxation and happiness.

Mike

05 June 2003, 07:04

Englander

The way our firearm laws are implemented is crazy ! Although my local liaison officer helps for example.......

I had a .243 for shooting pests,fox and Roe on a local farm.......When i wanted to tread up to a .308 i was told "NO"....... WHY ?? Well you see there are no Red deer on the land ! This was the reason given ! "they" see .308 as a red deer calibre TOO BIG for Roe !

But ...............wait for it......... if i joined a rifle club and took up "target shooting" i would be allowed to use the .308 on the farm i had originally asked and been refused !! [Roll Eyes]

What did i do ?? [Confused]

I joined a rifle club [Big Grin]

and got a .308 ! [Smile]

I also get alot less hassle when i asked for new calibres as "Target shooting" is a reason for starters !

Although you should have seen his face when i asked for my .444 Marlin [Confused]

Swings and round abouts jump though hoops if it means i get the gun i want i will play the game there way !

Englander

06 June 2003, 22:57

1894

A lot of the licensing officers know the games that are played and are quite happy even to advise you how to play the game.

If 222 etc is ever allowed by law for muntjac and roe in England and Wales it may have an interesting effect on the desire of applicant who want a 243 in areas where there are patently not fallow, sika or reds.

07 June 2003, 01:11

Englander

1894~ Funny you say that [Roll Eyes]

i know lots of friends who live in Fife (Plenty of Roe NO Red) who have a real job to get any thing bigger than .222,.223 [Eek!]

Why do you need any thing bigger when there is only Roe [Wink]

Thats the police view [Eek!]

You need to really convince them you have access to land with Red on to get a larger calibre ! [Frown]

Id rather back down on the powder in my .308 for Muntys [Smile]

Englander

07 June 2003, 02:10

Fallow Buck

It amazes me at quite how different each individual firearm officer deals with applications. In London over 4 different licencing areas, I have never been asked what species of deer I am coming accross. In fact one officer said I could get a .308win added to my certificate on the basis of the land I had to shoot over, even though I was already in posession of the .243, and without me asking.

I think 1884 made a point in another thread that was entirely valid. You need to match your calibre to the beast AND the circumstances. A fallow buck wandering calmly out of a wood at dusk and taken from a seat, will be easier to stop than the same animal in the deerpark being driven onto guns, where the adrenaline is pumping.

Licensing officers need to take more into account than just what type of deer is being targeted.

07 June 2003, 09:33

IanF

Richard.

Be happy! Your licensing officer was a wise and experienced hunter. Based on personal experience, I can confirm the .375hh will reliably take Munties as well as other major game.

As posted elsewhere, I have had great success with both Rabbit and Pigeon (on the ground)with this calibre. I was struck by the lack of meat damage in both cases....... Though the lack of heads could have explained that! [Wink]

Keep well.

Ian