Re: R 93 NEW ACCIDENT!

06 February 2004, 11:55

Fritz Kraut

Quote:

Quote:

Anyone know what the safety is on an R93 with a trigger jammed on fire.

Why should the R 93 have a safety ? It would defeat the entire purpose.

Carcano, puzzled about the question

1894 has clear point in his question. The flattened part of the firing pin of a M/98 prevents the pin from hitting the primer, unless the bolt lugs are fully engaged and the handle turned down. The old Mannlicher-Schoenauer has the same feature.

This has nothing to do with a safety in the usual meaning of the word. Itï¿½s just a matter of preventing to early ignition.

I don't think the English language distinguishes between "Sicherheit" and "Sicherung". 1894 has obviously written about "Sicherheit".

Best regards,

Fritz

07 February 2004, 07:21

carcano91

Quote:

91,000 psi? Let us assume that this is true.

Let us, first, not assume any uncorroborated stupidities. And you better go and read my previous posting again. And again. *Until* you have understood it.

Thanks.
Carcano

07 February 2004, 08:29

<JOHAN>

Still, I find the construcion of the blaser to be quite strange. No system for venting gas or extra locking mechanism?

I guess we have to wait for the police report before makeing any conclusions about the rifle or the ammo.

Edmond- I guess this must be you 10th post or something outside the political forums. I hope we see more of you here

/ JOHAN

07 February 2004, 10:00

Michael Robinson

Quote:

More information is clearly needed about this ammunition.

That was, quite literally, my bottom line, and it is indisputable in this case.

And please don't try to make this personal by your obnoxious tone. I have seen your posts on the political forum and have not been impressed. All too often, your contributions merely lower the quality and tone of the discussion.

As the owner of two R93s, I have more interest than you in learning the truth of this matter.

Is the Blaser R93 as idiot proof as a Mauser? I don't really care. I only care that the R93 be more than safe enough for anyone who will use it with intelligence. In order to make such a determination, I will repeat that more information is clearly needed about this ammunition.

Since I am not an idiot, I do not require my tools to be idiot proof. Others may and apparently do feel differently.

07 February 2004, 07:15

Michael Robinson

91,000 psi? Let us assume that this is true.

Then, to call this incident an "accident" hardly suffices to describe it.

More information is clearly needed about this ammunition.

07 February 2004, 06:32

carcano91

Let me ask you a dual counter-question, dear Edmond:

- Would it make any difference ?
- But would it altogether exonerate Blaser ?

Corollary question: suppose you manage to blow up you MAS-Fournier in 7x54 by a hot double-load of N 110. Do you think you would sustain the same injuries as with a Blaser R 93 - and why not ?

Sapienti sat...

C.

07 February 2004, 11:06

carcano91

Quote:

As the owner of two R93s, I have more interest than you in learning the truth of this matter.

Then you would be very well advised to begin to learn. Start with my referred posting (addressed to Edmond) and readit again. And AGAIN. Until, really until you understand it.

Quote:

Is the Blaser R93 as idiot proof as a Mauser? I don't really care.

One will not care because this deceptive rhetoric question is absolutely not the issue here. So, don't try to divert.

Quote:

I only care that the R93 be more than safe enough for anyone who will use it with intelligence. In order to make such a determination,

... you will have to read and understand. So, stay tuned, be attentive, and listen to those who know more than you.

Quote:

Since I am not an idiot,

With your postings, you are giving us the necessary information to assess this your self-statement properly. The whole discussion of the new accident has nothing AT ALL to do with the deliberation how safe against handling errors the R 93 be. While this issue may be of interest too, it is not the factor of this accident.

Carcano

15 January 2004, 02:49

konst#1

Hey fellows,
long time no hear, but now iï¿½m back.
So at first to all of u a happy new year!

I thing the debate with the R93 is everytime the same, either you love it or you hate it.

ALthough there where some Accidents in the past and BLASER recalled the rifles to there fabric to make there guns safer, a new accident happened a few days ago in Germany.

Pressarticle:
Auf dem Schieï¿½stand ï¿½Jakobsbergï¿½ bei Boppard (Rheinland-Pfalz) wurde am 10. Januar Albrecht H. beim Einschieï¿½en einer R 93-Repetierbï¿½chse im Kaliber .300 Weatherby Magnum verletzt, als beim fï¿½nften Schuss aus ungeklï¿½rter Ursache der Verschluss der Bï¿½chse gesprengt wurde.
Der Schï¿½tze, der die Waffe fï¿½r einen Bekannten einschoss, trug dabei schwere Verletzungen im Gesicht und an der Hand davon. Aus welchen Grï¿½nden es zu dem Unfall kam, ist zur Zeit unbekannt. Die Ermittlungen sind eingeleitet.
red.

For our friends who are not used to read German, here is may translation(attempt), hope you can understand it
Okay.here we go

At the shooting range "Jakobsberg" at Boppard Albert H.was seriously injured as he sightened in a R 93 in .300Wthy Mag , as with the 5th shot the action (Radialbundverschluï¿½)of the rifle blew up.
Albert H. was seriously injured in the face and hand, as he sightened the rifle for a friend in.
Why it came to this accident cant be said up to now, but the accident now is examined.

So better look after you, when shhoting your R 93 in a Magnum Calibre.

I donï¿½t know where i have read it, but some experst said that the owner of the Magnum calibreï¿½s may be should give theirerifles to a local gunsmith to check the action( gas pressure) of theire guns .

All the best
Konstantin

15 January 2004, 03:39

<JOHAN>

konst#1

Thanks for the information. I hope that this fellow sportman will recover from this accident quickly. It is really nasty every time it occurs.

I hope that they will be able to find the error in this accident, ammunition or rifle?

Cheers
/ JOHAN

15 January 2004, 06:56

GBF

Konstantin, I believe every brand and all kinds of rifles have blown up at some time in the past. Personally, having no first hand experience of the R93, I seriously doubt that it has anything to do with the make or the brand. Might off course be wrong on that matter.

A big name like Blaser certainly has a name and reputation to guard.

It might be the shooter was trying a bit too optimistic load ?

Regards

23 March 2004, 14:42

Heritage Arms

I would not worry about any blow ups, most if not all are user associated. The Blasers are unconventional and like all innovative products are subject to harsh scrutiny. Think about other rifles that are on the market and all the problems people have with them. Just my opinion

Aleko

15 January 2004, 10:11

carcano91

Quote:

I hope that they will be able to find the error in this accident, ammunition or rifle?

Johan, my favourite old anti-Blaserite, you know the reason of the accident. It was predictable, and it *had* been predicted, by myself and others. Alas :-(.

Dear GBF: you are right, but I am afraid you are entirely missing the specific point. Any rifle can be blown up, a Mauser 98 and even a Carcano (though the latter is very difficult to achieve, even with C-4). But the consequences for the shooter are very different. That's where the R 93 problem lies.

Carcano

16 January 2004, 00:14

<JOHAN>

Quote:

Johan, my favourite old anti-Blaserite, you know the reason of the accident. It was predictable, and it *had* been predicted, by myself and others. Alas :-(.

Carcano

Tag
Carcano

Favorite anti-Blaserite?

I hope that is not the locking bolt that gotten some sort of metal fatigue because then blaser will have a real problem on their hands. Blaser R-93 construction offers no protection for the shooter if any thing goes wrong. Mausers and other turnbolt actions will hopefully prevent the bolt from beeing integrated with your forehead.

After reading this I have spent a few hours together with my dear ZG-47 mauser. Giving then sweet care

All I need is a Magnum mauser,or two. After a serious thought make it four

The world best action, none is even close

Cheers
/ JOHAN

16 January 2004, 10:24

carcano91

Quote:

I hope that is not the locking bolt that gotten some sort of metal fatigue because then blaser will have a real problem on their hands.

The examination is now in the hands of the public prosecution office, which (as behooves) has taken the case. They will have an expertise, which most likely will clear up the situation. Thus, one will have to wait a bit.

Personally, I doubt that it was metal "fatigue"; but I do not doubt that Blaser will have a real problem on their hands. Remeber that accidents had already happened in the past (whether exactly the same, remains to see), and that new accidents with exactly same grievous result as this one had been *predicted* before.

Quote:

Blaser R-93 construction offers no protection for the shooter if any thing goes wrong.

Correct. Things *will* go wrong sometimes, that is a certainty, and then one is much safer (and will end up with a damaged hand and lower arm, instead of half a missing face) with a Mauser M 98, a Carcano, a Mosin-Nagant or any other classic turnbolt.

Best regards, and please offer a prayer to the unlucky shooter for speedy remission from hospital (recovery would be an undue euphemism, alas).

Carcano