quote:

ES,

If you need a bit more oomph, there's always the 300 H+H....

Well, ideally, if the rifle had been in .275 H & H it would have been perfect! As I intend to use it in France and Belgium .275 Rigby is ruled out as it is a military calibre.

quote:

Originally posted by enfieldspares:

quote:

ES,

If you need a bit more oomph, there's always the 300 H+H....

Well, ideally, if the rifle had been in .275 H & H it would have been perfect! As I intend to use it in France and Belgium .275 Rigby is ruled out as it is a military calibre.

Is rechambering an option?

FB

How much a big red bull weight in your country?

Steve, a Red stag can be anything up 30 stones (190kg)

It is a shame that 100gr is the minimum bullet wieght for Scotland as the 243win is extremely effective on even the largest deer with 70gr Nosler Ballistic Tips

In my memory the one that I hunted in Romania was heavier, not too much, but heavier.
And I still prefer a bigger caliber with heavier bullets.

I remember the work made by a .243 that I used in Hungary on a fallow deer cow. I shooted while it was facing me at 90-100 meters, I hitted very well the chest, but it turned on itself and runned away with all the herd, without any kind of sign of sufference for the shot.

Then returned and runned in front of us. The gamekeeper and I were sure of the shot, but three friend, all very expert, declared that I missed the cow.

They begun to understand they were wronning when the Gamekeeper, beginning to smoke a little pipe and without saying a word, after a head shake begun to walk toward the anschuss. Then at 40-50meters from the anschuss he found blood and 70-80 meters far from the anschuss we found the big cow.

This would not been happen with a 9.3

quote:

Posted 02 December 2008 22:05 Hide Post
It is a shame that 100gr is the minimum bullet wieght for Scotland as the 243win is extremely effective on even the largest deer with 70gr Nosler Ballistic Tips

According to Noslers home page the 70gr / 6mm is a varmint bullet.

To stalk red deer with such a bullet is like waiting for a disaster to happen.
What happens if you hit heavy shoulder bone
These bullets are made to "explode" in small critters, not for hunting big game.

But again... each his own

quote:

Originally posted by DJM:
It is a shame that 100gr is the minimum bullet wieght for Scotland as the 243win is extremely effective on even the largest deer with 70gr Nosler Ballistic Tips

Dear o` dear! Or should that be Deer o` deer!?

The use of bullets designed for vermin culling i.e light weight, thin jacketed. Should never be considered as acceptable for use on any of our larger deer species. Southern woodland stags can tip the scales well in excess of 20-25st (280-350lb or 130-160kg)

I know a number of professional stalkers who flatly refuse to allow the use of any ballistic tipped bullet irrespective of what calibre chosen.

quote:

But again... each his own

Arild

I agree, but a line in the sand has to be drawn some where.

I have shot enough Dorset Sika Stags, Thetford Red stags and PD stags with them and not had them 'explode'

In fact with my 300 I tried using 'premium' bullets last season in preference to BT's never again for me it is BT's all the way.

[quote]have shot enough Dorset Sika Stags, Thetford Red stags and PD stags with them and not had them 'explode'

In fact with my 300 I tried using 'premium' bullets last season in preference to BT's never again for me it is BT's all the way.]


Are you really serious ?
The 6mm/70 gr Nosler Ballistic Tip is constructed with a very thin casing that is ment to disintegrate (explode) in varmints suchs as woodchucks, crows, magpies etc.

I have uset this bullet on magpies and seagulls and the result is usually a pile of feathers and very little else.

How can you say that this (6mm/70 grBT) bullet is suited for big game?

Please enlighten me

quote:

Originally posted by DJM:
I have shot enough Dorset Sika Stags, Thetford Red stags and PD stags with them and not had them 'explode'

In fact with my 300 I tried using 'premium' bullets last season in preference to BT's never again for me it is BT's all the way.

If you say so.

There's no way I'd want to shoot a Sika stag with a .243 70gr BT. Unless it was real up close and getting personal.

Cant say that I know of any PD stags wandering about in the wilds of the UK.

quote:

Originally posted by Arild Iversen:

quote:

have shot enough Dorset Sika Stags, Thetford Red stags and PD stags with them and not had them 'explode'

In fact with my 300 I tried using 'premium' bullets last season in preference to BT's never again for me it is BT's all the way.]


Are you really serious ?
The 6mm/70 gr Nosler Ballistic Tip is constructed with a very thin casing that is ment to disintegrate (explode) in varmints suchs as woodchucks, crows, magpies etc.

I have uset this bullet on magpies and seagulls and the result is usually a pile of feathers and very little else.

How can you say that this (6mm/70 grBT) bullet is suited for big game?

Please enlighten me

100's of Sika and Fallow cannot be wrong!

quote:

Originally posted by H5:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by DJM:
I have shot enough Dorset Sika Stags, Thetford Red stags and PD stags with them and not had them 'explode'

In fact with my 300 I tried using 'premium' bullets last season in preference to BT's never again for me it is BT's all the way.

If you say so.

There's no way I'd want to shoot a Sika stag with a .243 70gr BT. Unless it was real up close and getting personal.

Cant say that I know of any PD stags wandering about in the wilds of the UK.

You should get out more, I guess you have never been to Northamptonshire.

quote:

Originally posted by DJM:

100's of Sika and Fallow cannot be wrong!

I guess not! But I know a fella's that is.

quote:

Originally posted by DJM:You should get out more, I guess you have never been to Northamptonshire.

Salcey here I come!

.243 win and 70gr Ballistic Tips are far more suitable for deer than a 12ga firing ssg

What sort of deer?

Northants PD stags presumably !

Here we go again...........

Arrrhhhhhh! Thats a cute one.

How about looking at this another way? If you like the Holland and Holland rifle, can you have it rebored and rechambered to a larger caliber? That way, you have the best of both worlds.

Dave

quote:

How about looking at this another way? If you like the Holland and Holland rifle, can you have it rebored and rechambered to a larger caliber?

Probably not within my budget at Holland's prices...which is the only way it would remain being able to be sold as a H & H under our legal system.

I have only shot one animal with a 243 and it was a 100 pound pronhorn antelope doe. I personally don't like this caliber much for big game. I would use it on roe deer, and for culling at close ranges in a very accurate rifle. Other than that I like the 25-06 and 6.5x55 much more, and the 264 and 6.5x68 even more!

D99 out of interest what bullet wieght and type did you use?

And what happened with the pronghorn doe did in go striaght down, run along way or something between the 2?

I know one doe is pretty limited experience, and thousands of animals are killed every year with the 243.

I used a 100 grain Nosler partition on her. I hit her in the lungs but she took a long time to bleed out, almost 15 minuites. She sat down in some heavy sage and I could see her sitting there and waited for her to die. I hate waiting for them to suffer.

I shot a buck antelope with a 284 Winchester and the 140 grain ballistic tip. He did a back flip and was dead. It looked like someone put his heart in a blender.

D99,

That is very simular to what I was experiencing last season when I was using Partition and other 'Premium' bullets in a 300.

Well shot animals were running a long way before falling over and or bleeding out. I shot around 50 animals with the 300 last season so it was a fair sample size. The seasons before I used BT's with no drama's and this season I have gone back to Ballistic tips for the 300, 35 animals so far all dropped to the shot even with less than perfect shot placement.

I have used 100gr bullets in the .243 but get far better results with the 70gr BT, down is is there is not always an exit on quartering shots but the internals are always 'minced'.

The 243 would not be my first choice of an all round deer gun but with the right bullet it does have is place.

My choice for an all rounder is the 25-06 it is even my favoured rifle for park culling.

quote:

Originally posted by H5:
Something of a contradictory post there Steve!

quote:

.243 is considered a fox rifle.

quote:

I have shot Red hinds on Arran with a .243, the furthest the beast travelled from the bullet strike was 50 yards

I'm sure I read in one of Lea McNally's articles that he had shot most of his red deer, stags, and hinds, with a .243.

But we digress.

.275 or as it should be known 7X57, is good but why bother with it? When the .308 is better, with greater availability of ammunition, wont cost you an arm and a leg to purchase a decent one. plus why pick a round capable of killing an elephant when you only want to shoot foxes?

Just back from Arran today, Post was intended Not as a contradiction, Just as a personal view from experience, & I would think 50 yards on clear fell would be less pleasant than zero yards.

Thank you to all that replied and posted. I didn't get the Holland 240 - lot 21 in Sotheby's December sale. Not for lack of funds...but because it was announced it appeared to have had a past crack or split in the stock through the hand. A pity! It looked absolutely superb when I viewed it.

Enfield,

a 240 should not have a crack in the wood, not enough recoil force, a likely cause is to tight a fit between stock wood and the action or external force, ie a fall or other trauma to the rifle.

Perhaps you should be glad things turned out this way, I for one would not be happy getting a "new" rifle only to find out it was in lesser state that I thought when buying it.


Best regards Chris

quote:

Perhaps you should be glad things turned out this way, I for one would not be happy getting a "new" rifle only to find out it was in lesser state that I thought when buying it.

Yes. I agree. And as well because it was going to be a Christmas gift from my eighty-nine year old mother! It would have been a disappointment in that state.

ES

I didn;t realis this was the gun. I think Smallbore was looking at the same rifle in 240 Apex and came to the same conclusion. Of course I may have the wrong end of the stick, it wouldn't be the first time!!

Something else will come along.

FB