I'm with Peter. I see no exception to the rule kid 1st. Even if one wants to wipe them out, he shoud not, ethically speaking, take the chance of killing the mother and maybe not have the opportunity to shoot the kid, leaving him to starve.

I'd shoot the Kid first because OBE says I shoudn't ( Don't forget the obligatory winker )

FB

Pre Xmas.

Doe and Doe Kid, and High neck shot is on Doe 1st then Kid

Doe and Buck Kid, Leave them Both

Doe and Twin Doe Kids, 1st Kids then Doe if still there.

Doe and 1 Buck & 1 Doe Kid, Doe kid only

Post Xmas

Does 1st

quote:

Originally posted by Fallow Buck:
I'd shoot the Kid first because OBE says I shoudn't ( Don't forget the obligatory winker )

FB

If that's the way you base all of your decisions. I say don't give me a thousand pounds. Obligatory winker included.

quote:

Originally posted by Trapper Dave:
Berkeley is reputed to have said of Johnson: "He kicked the stone but missed the point"
If OBE has a point, its buried in an attack on the man and his grammaticals.
As to who is true custodian of the wisdom of Ronnie Rose or whoever, it all smacks a little of "The Life of Brian".

Dickens is reported to have told Collins "Simply read the word to comprehended the meaning".

No attack made merely an observation.

Life of Brian or the Holy Grail. Ronnie Rose is still here and he has many receptacles for his advice, guidance. Thankfully.

quote:

Originally posted by DJM:
Pre Xmas.

Doe and Doe Kid, and High neck shot is on Doe 1st then Kid

Doe and Buck Kid, Leave them Both

Doe and Twin Doe Kids, 1st Kids then Doe if still there.

Doe and 1 Buck & 1 Doe Kid, Doe kid only

Post Xmas

Does 1st

Interesting - how about when like now you start to get herds including more than one doe fawn group and they move after the shot?

Never seen a herd of Roe, I have seen numerous family groups feeding on the same bit of ground later in the winter.

If there is a large group of Roe then Doe kids only.

Large deer Hinds / Does first, after all the closed season was brought in to protect denpendant young.

quote:

Originally posted by Richard E:

Kid first and depending wether i hav a choice will depend on which kid
even with Muntjac

quote:

Originally posted by Old blue eyes:
Dickie



I see you can't even get it right for muntjac. Oh well, theres no helping some people!

well maybe you could help me then

so what would be the right method then if it's not dependant first

In our places - goes to all "German hunting way" influenced countries - kid first - many times doe stays with fallen kid and there is no prob. to shoot it if neccesary. When culling roes I always carry a doe call set to higher tones, so if doe escapes after kid was shot you can call it back many times (sometimes you must use distressed call). Never adult first. Same goes for reds - one should see how a herd behaves toward an orphanaged kid - it falls down the hirearchy ladder way to the last - and the whole herd have at it...

Always kid/calf/young first.
To those who claim that on roe, the kid always stay, how can you be sure?
It is basically the same with moose, the calf stays ALMOST every time this has been practiced.
Not every time. What if you shoot the mother and the calf goes?
Would you feel good? It`s not just about killing, a responsible hunter shoots calf first.

Period.

quote:

Originally posted by Richard E:

quote:

Originally posted by Richard E:

Kid first and depending wether i hav a choice will depend on which kid
even with Muntjac

quote:

Originally posted by Old blue eyes:
Dickie



I see you can't even get it right for muntjac. Oh well, theres no helping some people!

well maybe you could help me then

so what would be the right method then if it's not dependant first

Dick

Always prepared to help those willing to learn.

Where would you like to start?

There is a lot of guff talked about only shooting fat heavily pregnant does. The problem with that is I, and I am not the only one, have shot fat does and thin does that have been carrying well advanced foetuses. I've also shot fat does that haven't been pregnant.

At 6 weeks muntjac fawns are capable of surviving the loss of the doe. Prior to 6 weeks they are never very far from the doe and will return to a shot doe if you sit and wait without disturbing the scene. There by allowing the stalker to do the necessary. After 6 weeks they may bolt for cover and may or may not return. But they are quite capable of surviving often being mentored by the buck. As they are not totally dependent on the doe for nourishment from a very young age the loss of the doe after 6 weeks is not great drama.

In sweden it`s illegal to shoot doe before calf. Calfs have problems surviving the winter alone.

About ten years ago a hunter had a reporter at his moose stand, then he shot calf + calf + cow. In the paper he was shown as a real hunter with pictures and all. He was banned from his huntingteam and facing leagal consekvensies.

(In sweden there are similar punishment for shoting a bear or wolf illegal and manslauther)

quote:

Originally posted by Nordic2:
In sweden it`s illegal to shoot doe before calf. Calfs have problems surviving the winter alone.

About ten years ago a hunter had a reporter at his moose stand, then he shot calf + calf + cow. In the paper he was shown as a real hunter with pictures and all. He was banned from his huntingteam and facing leagal consekvensies.

(In sweden there are similar punishment for shoting a bear or wolf illegal and manslauther)

How does that apply to roe? The main area of discussion of this particular thread.

The UK population is exploding. Wise up hunters and deer managers the niceties and luxuries of preserving animals need compromising.
We need too shoot a lot more deer in UK.
No use extending the doe season when some baulk at the idea of killing does with formed foetii.
Shoot the doe first and you get the best chance at all three (thats all you need to know) but you need too plan it and not procrastinate over the ethics.
If we cant control the deer then night shooting and year round open season will be along too help.
Foresters and farmers and RTA's will demand it.

This is the way the law sees it:

Statutory Instruments

2007 No. 2183
regulatory reform, england and wales

ANIMALS, ENGLAND AND WALES

DEER

The Regulatory Reform (Deer) (England and Wales) Order 2007
Made
25th July 2007
Coming into force
1st October 2007

General exceptions to certain provisions of the Deer Act 1991
3.—(1) Section 6 of the 1991 Act (general exceptions to certain provisions of this Act) is amended as follows.

(2) After subsection (2), insert—

“(2A) A person shall not be guilty of an offence under section 2 or section 3 above by reason of taking or killing a deer that he reasonably believes—

(a) has been deprived in any way (other than by an unlawful taking or killing by that person) of a female deer on which it was dependent; or
(b) is about to be deprived, by death from disease or a lawful taking or killing, of a female deer on which it is dependent.”.
(3) For subsection (4), substitute—

“(4) A person shall not be guilty of an offence under section 4(1) or (2) above by reason of the use of any reasonable means for the purpose of killing any deer if he reasonably believes that the deer has been so seriously injured, otherwise than by his unlawful act, or is in such condition, that to kill it is an act of mercy.”.

You may notice that it does not destinguish between species or sex.

Regards

quote:

Originally posted by trans-pond:
The UK population is exploding. Wise up hunters and deer managers the niceties and luxuries of preserving animals need compromising.
We need too shoot a lot more deer in UK.
No use extending the doe season when some baulk at the idea of killing does with formed foetii.
Shoot the doe first and you get the best chance at all three (thats all you need to know) but you need too plan it and not procrastinate over the ethics.
If we cant control the deer then night shooting and year round open season will be along too help.
Foresters and farmers and RTA's will demand it.

quote:

Originally posted by puntgunner:
This is the way the law sees it:

Statutory Instruments

2007 No. 2183
regulatory reform, england and wales

ANIMALS, ENGLAND AND WALES

DEER

The Regulatory Reform (Deer) (England and Wales) Order 2007
Made
25th July 2007
Coming into force
1st October 2007

General exceptions to certain provisions of the Deer Act 1991
3.—(1) Section 6 of the 1991 Act (general exceptions to certain provisions of this Act) is amended as follows.

(2) After subsection (2), insert—

“(2A) A person shall not be guilty of an offence under section 2 or section 3 above by reason of taking or killing a deer that he reasonably believes—

(a) has been deprived in any way (other than by an unlawful taking or killing by that person) of a female deer on which it was dependent; or
(b) is about to be deprived, by death from disease or a lawful taking or killing, of a female deer on which it is dependent.”.
(3) For subsection (4), substitute—

“(4) A person shall not be guilty of an offence under section 4(1) or (2) above by reason of the use of any reasonable means for the purpose of killing any deer if he reasonably believes that the deer has been so seriously injured, otherwise than by his unlawful act, or is in such condition, that to kill it is an act of mercy.”.

You may notice that it does not destinguish between species or sex.

Regards

Thanks guys at least there's a few of us that understand the right way to do things in regards to roe.

Is it any wonder that the DCS and DI as well as a few others have little faith in the abilities of amateur stalkers being able to achieve the necessary levels of control and managemnet of deer that are going to be required. When you have the likes of Dick and FB out there doing it the wrong way despite being repeatedly advised of their mistakes.

RR holds them in equally low regard, and I can't say I blame him.

Bluey
you sound like a politician
they talk about as much bullshit

the law we know is wrong, as it was set out to cover it's own ass because of their mis-management of running this country
but then like you say you are happy to go along and agree with any type of management as you know no better

the Deer can all rest easy now knowing this

OBE
you sound like a politician
they talk about as much bullshit

the law we know is wrong, as it was set out to cover it's own ass in the mis-management of running this country
but then like you say you are happy to go along and agree with any type of management as you know no better
makes me glad to know there are stalkers out there just like you
we can all rest easy know

Bluey
you sound like a politician
they talk about as much bullshit

the law we know is wrong, as it was set out to cover it's own ass because of their mis-management of running this country
but then like you say you are happy to go along and agree with any type of management as you know no better

we can all rest easy now knowing this

Bluey
you sound like a politician
they talk about as much bullshit

the law we know is wrong, as it was set out to cover it's own ass because of their mis-management of running this country
but then like you say you are happy to go along and agree with any type of management as you know no better

we can all rest easy now knowing this

quote:

Originally posted by Old blue eyes:
Thanks guys at least there's a few of us that understand the right way to do things in regards to roe.

Is it any wonder that the DCS and DI as well as a few others have little faith in the abilities of amateur stalkers being able to achieve the necessary levels of control and managemnet of deer that are going to be required. When you have the likes of Dick and FB out there doing it the wrong way despite being repeatedly advised of their mistakes.

RR holds them in equally low regard, and I can't say I blame him.

Well OBE
since apparently the rest of europe and the traditions and research done there is flawed, and you seem to have the omnipotent answer to this, would you like to tell us a bit about yourself, with 31 posts i really dont know enough about you yet to determin weather you are just another troll which you seem to be or one of the uk tactial deer squad which is almost as bad.

to me you come off as uninformed or informed but being a poster child for the special olympic's you dont know what to do with the information you get.

so please tell me why your way is right as opposed to hundred years of tradition in the rest of europe.

peter

quote:

Originally posted by Richard E:
Bluey
you sound like a politician
they talk about as much bullshit

the law we know is wrong, as it was set out to cover it's own ass because of their mis-management of running this country
but then like you say you are happy to go along and agree with any type of management as you know no better

we can all rest easy now knowing this

Ah Dickie!

Still sticking to the teenage texting style. In'it

I sound like a politician ah? Well I suppose that depends upon you point of view.
Stick you head far enough up your own arse and everyone sounds like a politician, so I have been reliably informed.

The law it correct. How you can relate the political management of the country to the correct managemnet of a mammalian species, is any ones guess. But it does clearly indicate the level of confusion and misguidedness you are operating under. Or the desperation to try and save a bit of face.

Please rest easy old chap and go off and read a decent book.

Something with a decent grammatical structure perhaps. Rather than one of these modern title like Spot the Dog.

Pete

uk tactial deer squad ? I can't say I know of that group. Are they anything like the TPG but operate in the world of deer culling? Perhaps you could shed some light on what makes them tactical, who they are, where they operate from, and how they differ from your average DMG. They sound a fascinating bunch. Especially this "tactical" bit.

so please tell me why your way is right as opposed to hundred years of tradition in the rest of europe.

Something of a strange request. Presumably you haven't read the whole thread, as I'm pretty sure that has already been covered on at least one occasion possibly two. With out going back and checking, something frankly I can't be bothered to do, I can't be absolutely firm on the numbers. Perhaps you might care to do that for yourself.

I wondered when the old troll flag would be dragged out and hoisted up some flag pole or other. Simply disagreeing with a few misinformed and misguided individuals, who are consistently incapable of effectively defending their opinions doesn't make one an internet troll. Despite how much you or anyone else would like it to be so. Simply because it would make yours and their lives easier.

At the end of the day what does it matter? Trans-pond, Puntgunner, RR, me, and many others are right in our chosen methodology. Fact! Tradition can't hold a candle to correct modern techniques, and should remain where it belongs. In the past, in the history books and in the out dated text books.

Its a brave new modern world we live in Pete with modern ways, modern views, and modern methods all of them correct. Welcome to the 21st century.

quote:

Originally posted by Old blue eyes:
.

At 6 weeks muntjac fawns are capable of surviving the loss of the doe. Prior to 6 weeks they are never very far from the doe and will return to a shot doe if you sit and wait without disturbing the scene. There by allowing the stalker to do the necessary. After 6 weeks they may bolt for cover and may or may not return. But they are quite capable of surviving often being mentored by the buck. As they are not totally dependent on the doe for nourishment from a very young age the loss of the doe after 6 weeks is not great drama.

not sure where you googled your info from but it don't quite add up
at 6 weeks a fawn is still dependant on it's mother for nourishment
by 8-9 weeks they are normally fully weaned but still dependant on it's mother for protection from predation
once they hav lost all their spots is a good indication that they are fully weaned and probally able to with-stand losing it's mother
but they do not fully loose all the spots till about 10 weeks +
the likely hood of a dependant kid under 6 weeks old, returning to the doe once the doe has been shot is most likey after about 3-5 hours depending on if it can see it's mother lay dead, other wise it may start to scream for the attention hoping the parent will come to it
bucks do not mentor they tollerate,
Does will take on an orphaned fawn if they are lactating which is where most sightings of twins originate from
with out that an orphaned fawn under 8 weeks is likely to die
see you learn something every day

quote:

Originally posted by Old blue eyes:
[Ah Dickie!

Still sticking to the teenage texting style. In'it .

modern approach old chap as you say we live in a modern world but lets not digress now

quote:

Originally posted by Old blue eyes:
Its a brave new modern world we live in Pete with modern ways, modern views, and modern methods all of them correct. Welcome to the 21st century.

just a little tester for ten points
in the last 30 years what has dramatically happened in this country which has changed the eco system to the land we live in???

To "Old Blue Eyes":
My opinion differ from yours, does that make me a, and I qoute, "misinformed and misguided individual"?
Just curious...
I dont have a clue of who you are, but your way of discussing on this site kinda makes me wonder.
Now, mark my words, I didnt piss on you, I just feel we dont need to disgrace each other unnessesarily.

Have I understood you correctly, when you state that it is a "modern technique" or method to shoot the doe first in order to reduce a species?

In that we disagree too.
And as far as standing by ones opinion, it would take one hell of an argument from you to change how I think about shootingkid first or not.
You may call me stupid again, but sorry it aint gonna happen.

Sincerely.

quote:

Originally posted by Richard E:

quote:

Originally posted by Old blue eyes:
.

At 6 weeks muntjac fawns are capable of surviving the loss of the doe. Prior to 6 weeks they are never very far from the doe and will return to a shot doe if you sit and wait without disturbing the scene. There by allowing the stalker to do the necessary. After 6 weeks they may bolt for cover and may or may not return. But they are quite capable of surviving often being mentored by the buck. As they are not totally dependent on the doe for nourishment from a very young age the loss of the doe after 6 weeks is not great drama.

not sure where you googled your info from but it don't quite add up
at 6 weeks a fawn is still dependant on it's mother for nourishment
by 8-9 weeks they are normally fully weaned but still dependant on it's mother for protection from predation
once they hav lost all their spots is a good indication that they are fully weaned and probally able to with-stand losing it's mother
but they do not fully loose all the spots till about 10 weeks +
the likely hood of a dependant kid under 6 weeks old, returning to the doe once the doe has been shot is most likey after about 3-5 hours depending on if it can see it's mother lay dead, other wise it may start to scream for the attention hoping the parent will come to it
bucks do not mentor they tollerate,
Does will take on an orphaned fawn if they are lactating which is where most sightings of twins originate from
with out that an orphaned fawn under 8 weeks is likely to die
see you learn something every day

Dickie

No need for Google or any other search engine thanks. Practical knowledge suites me fine.

I'm not sure where you get your views from perhaps its out of some book you paid so much money for.

Bucks will and do take an active part in assisting in the raising of their off spring should the need arise. Whether this is down to their willingness to mentor or tolerate is a mute point . Mainly due to the fact I've never know one to express an opinion on the matter.

As for does taking on orphaned fawns hence the sighting of twins is again rather debatable. Even dumb arsed sheep need some convincing to do that.

Always willing to learn. I'll let you know when you come up with something worth consideration.

quote:

Originally posted by Old blue eyes:
Pete

so please tell me why your way is right as opposed to hundred years of tradition in the rest of europe.

Something of a strange request. Presumably you haven't read the whole thread, as I'm pretty sure that has already been covered on at least one occasion possibly two. With out going back and checking, something frankly I can't be bothered to do, I can't be absolutely firm on the numbers. Perhaps you might care to do that for yourself.

Ok, i will take the bait, you still have not explained as to why it is the smart and correct way to shoot the roe first. the nay sayers have explained that etichally it is wrong to leave a fawn without the roe to teach it the ways.
but you have come up with nothing other than insults and the name of some guy that you belive agrees with you

quote:

I wondered when the old troll flag would be dragged out and hoisted up some flag pole or other. Simply disagreeing with a few misinformed and misguided individuals, who are consistently incapable of effectively defending their opinions doesn't make one an internet troll. Despite how much you or anyone else would like it to be so. Simply because it would make yours and their lives easier.

No the troll flag gets hoisted as soon as a person who have no credentials no hunting stories to share, and an attitude like a teenager starts to tell people, that at least have shown, that they are hunters, that what they do is wrong and misguided, because you heard it from somebody or most likely read it in some book.
I would love to be wrong on this, but dont expect it to be so.

quote:

At the end of the day what does it matter? Trans-pond, Puntgunner, RR, me, and many others are right in our chosen methodology. Fact!

where are those facts presented, i dont mind disagreeing but please show some facts.

quote:

Tradition can't hold a candle to correct modern techniques, and should remain where it belongs. In the past, in the history books and in the out dated text books.

now this is about as dumb as it gets, in my trade we use mordern techniques as much as possible, but still have to use the traditionel methods in the end because there is no other way of doing it.

quote:

Its a brave new modern world we live in Pete with modern ways, modern views, and modern methods all of them correct. Welcome to the 21st century.

thank you for the welcome, that is very nice of you, i just choose to disagree with you that not all things new are good or needed.
Please show me that you are not just a young kid in his 20's with to much dreaming and reading and a hard on for plastic guns and fast calibers. i actually took the time to look through all your post's and i dont find anything that says othervice than rookie and loudmouth.
this is a place of learning for the unexpirenced and a discussion area for adults, just leave it at that please.

regards

peter

quote:

Originally posted by Richard E:

modern approach old chap as you say we live in a modern world but lets not digress now


just a little tester for ten points
in the last 30 years what has dramatically happened in this country which has changed the eco system to the land we live in???

Modern approach or idleness, ignorance and incapability?

I'll give you one guess as to what I think its due too. Just to help its not the former.

Where do we start. Global warming, increased urbanisation, the Chernobyl disaster, deforestation, re-afforestation, lead reduction in fuel, increasing population, England winning the world cup in '66, Punk rock, the demise of most of our heavy industry, reduction in water pollution, the increased productivity of our agri-industry, Jordan's left boob, Jordan's right boob, oh to hell with it Jordan! Wayne Rooney, John and Edward, how about Prince Charles he's always in there somewhere. Recycling, land fill, waste incineration, wind turbines, BBC Radio 2, its not Terry Wogan is it? Shall I stop there or would you like some more?

but you have come up with nothing other than insults and the name of some guy that you belive agrees with you

Seek and you shall find Pete. Its in there some where. You'll just have to go and find it.

"No the troll flag gets hoisted as soon as a person who have no credentials no hunting stories to share, and an attitude like a teenager starts to tell people, that at least have shown, that they are hunters, that what they do is wrong and misguided, because you heard it from somebody or most likely read it in some book.
I would love to be wrong on this, but dont expect it to be so."

So its sharing stories and self promoted credentials that makes for a non troll.PMSL If thats what it takes I'll gladly sit back an watch it roll on by..

now this is about as dumb as it gets, in my trade we use mordern techniques as much as possible, but still have to use the traditionel methods in the end because there is no other way of doing it.

AS I am unaware as to what exactly your trade is I couldn't really comment. I suppose the two questions I could ask are, have you tried looking, have you tried hard enough. I accept that sometime, on those rare occassions there is no better alternative modern method. Unfortunately this isn't one of theose occassions.

"thank you for the welcome, that is very nice of you, i just choose to disagree with you that not all things new are good or needed.
Please show me that you are not just a young kid in his 20's with to much dreaming and reading and a hard on for plastic guns and fast calibers. i actually took the time to look through all your post's and i dont find anything that says othervice than rookie and loudmouth.
this is a place of learning for the unexpirenced and a discussion area for adults, just leave it at that please."

How would you like convincing. Shall I sit you down and tell you a few stories of my hunting trips, you seem to place great store but that! Perhaps I could just agree with you, hows that? Would that make me less of a rookie and a loudmouth?

Seeing as I'm neither of those. I'll leave you to go seek what you are looking for.

OBE

as you are still dogding the questions, you will have a new special place in my world as you have the honor of being the first person that i put on ignore as i find your latest reply the mark of a troll, i hope you redirect yourself to the political forum where you will find peopel of your age and demeanor.

peter

quote:

Originally posted by Old blue eyes:



Dickie

No need for Google or any other search engine thanks. Practical knowledge suites me fine.

I'm not sure where you get your views from perhaps its out of some book you paid so much money for.

Bucks will and do take an active part in assisting in the raising of their off spring should the need arise. Whether this is down to their willingness to mentor or tolerate is a mute point . Mainly due to the fact I've never know one to express an opinion on the matter.

As for does taking on orphaned fawns hence the sighting of twins is again rather debatable. Even dumb arsed sheep need some convincing to do that.

Always willing to learn. I'll let you know when you come up with something worth consideration.

Bluey
this is my last post on this thread as it seems to hav almost run it's course
so just to say
THANK YOU
never realised you payed so much attention to my posts , not just here but on other forums too
made my night that has
just had a flick through the dark ages
never realised just how little you knew about deer

and the more you talk about it the less you seem to know, Amazing what the tinternet doe's for you

by the way i don't need the book , i hav the DVD thanks

you must try better
regards

"made my night that has "

Dickie

You know what they say . "Little things please little minds" and they don't come any smaller than you.

"by the way i don't need the book , i hav the DVD thanks"
Well it was blatantly obvious that it wasn't from your own practical knowledge and experience.

Next time you need any help getting it right you only have to ask. I'm always prepared to take on another novice. Even petty small minded ones at that, subject to them meeting certain hygiene standards.

quote:

Originally posted by peterdk:
OBE

as you are still dogding the questions, you will have a new special place in my world as you have the honor of being the first person that i put on ignore as i find your latest reply the mark of a troll, i hope you redirect yourself to the political forum where you will find peopel of your age and demeanor.

peter

Pete

I'm not dodgeing question. The fact is the questions have been answered earlier and I'm disinclined to repeat myself.

I see you are still on the troll band wagon. I suppose it makes the matter easier to brand someone you disagree with a troll. Rather than open your mind to the thought that they have actually done their home work, learnt a few more lessons, seen and adopted a more modern practical approach to the problem, and are prepared to offer honest, sound arguments to support their views.

I have little time for out moded traditions, I pay them little or no credence, especially when new modern methods have shown them to be erroneous. I find dogma, and adherence to old time methods simply because that's the way you were told it was meant to be, neither insightful or conductive to getting the job done. I would go as far as to say I have often found them to be the closely associated with dullards and the witless.

I have no interest in politics or self aggrandisement thru telling hunting stories. I am interested in learning new practical management techniques, improving my practical skills base, and discussing important aspects of our modern deer management methods in an adult, open, and intelligent manner.

OBE,
Please, leave...

Ignored post by Old blue eyes posted 17 November 2009 11:54

this is quite a cool little option

"Never argue with an idiot. They bring you down to their level and beat you with experience."

quote:

Originally posted by peterdk:
Ignored post by Old blue eyes posted 17 November 2009 11:54

this is quite a cool little option

"Never argue with an idiot. They bring you down to their level and beat you with experience."

Pete

We know you can't resist reading.

Idiocy is a matter of perception, depending entirely upon which side of the discussion you view the idiots from.

Still lets not go down the road of discussion on such philosophical subjects. Let us stick to the subject at hand. The best practice of target selection sequence in regards to roe does and their off spring..

As repeatedly stated.It should be, doe first, then kid!

quote:

Originally posted by Old blue eyes:

quote:

Originally posted by peterdk:
Ignored post by Old blue eyes posted 17 November 2009 11:54

this is quite a cool little option

"Never argue with an idiot. They bring you down to their level and beat you with experience."

Pete

We know you can't resist reading.

Idiocy is a matter of perception, depending entirely upon which side of the discussion you view the idiots from.

Still lets not go down the road of discussion on such philosophical subjects. Let us stick to the subject at hand. The best practice of target selection sequence in regards to roe does and their off spring..

As repeatedly stated.It should be, doe first, then kid!

Look at him go chaps, our old friend is galloping free once again clicky

Nah! This is a far better clip of a collective bunch of...................... well you know what I'm referring to

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v...ature=response_watch

Like I said it all depends upon what side of the debate your view them from or in this case camera .