Quick question: period correct '86 reproduction shooting cast bullets and black powder in .45-70

I was told by a self-proclaimed expert that this is NOT a BPCR because it is not a single shot...

What say you?

If it shoots black powder with a cartridge IMHO its a BPCR

As far as I am concerned, if it shoots a cartridge that was developed using black powder, it is a Black Powder Cartridge Rifle.

Now: as far as a BPCR Competition rifle goes, that is another question entirely, as I see it.

To meet the rules for competition, it has to be originally designed as a single shot.

Using the acronym, BPCR, you are (maybe inadvertently) using the NRA designation for a particular type of rifle and match.
Which designates only single shots in the NRA BPCR context.
Now, if you are saying bpcr, outside of any NRA match rules, then, yes, any rifle originally made for black powder ammo is one.
Simple.

quote:

Originally posted by Smokin Joe:
To meet the rules for competition, it has to be originally designed as a single shot.

Thanks Joe and the rest of you guys...it clarifies things a bit and helps explain why the 'expert' ( who is a competitor...) considers it inadequate of the moniker......


My opinion was like everyone so far, if its designed to shoot a cartridge built for black powder.....

Kinda like if it looks like a duck, quacks like a duck.....

Well, I see a lot of articles on lever guns shooting black powder and cast bullets in the Black Powder Cartridge News. Self-proclaimed experts are just that. I only listen to the experts who can back up their statements with factual data and cite credible references.

Well, to help everyone out, here is the reference from the NRA rules;
3.4 Black Powder Cartridge Rifle - A hunting or military style rifle, single shot, originally made for black powder cartridges, of United States manufacture prior to 1896 and being typical of the era. Replicas thereof, regardless of origin of manufacture, are permitted. Hammer must be exposed.
Now, of course any cartridge rifle designed before the advent of smokeless powder is a black powder cartridge rifle. Just not in the context and definition of NRA competition are they BPCRs. So a BPCR competitor might be thinking of the NRA definition. It's just words. No need to get hung up on it. They are what they are, depending on the context.

Does anybody know when the NRA rules were made and whether they can be petitioned to make changes?

I ask because these rules are exactly what I run up against if I wish to use an English rifle in any NRA competition.
It is silly (and frustrating) that original rifles that were acceptable to shoot and used in period are not allowed to be used today.

BTW, I generally refer to any rifle made in the BP era or only proved to be using BP as BPCR. You will find that you MUST describe them as such, especially to those not up on the history of the firearm, so they don't automatically assume you are talking muzzle loaders.

NRA Silhouette rules were developed many years ago, around 1981, and do get updated periodically; Yes you can petition them to add rifles. Here is how they say to do it;
"Forward recommendations for rule changes to the Silhouette Committee in care of the National Rifle Association"
Good luck with adding foreign rifles.
Again, of course you can and should call them, bpcrs, which they obviously are, but within the context of NRA competition, they aren't allowed.
Context matters.
BTW, the rules do address, and there are specific matches for, Lever Actions.

Anything before 1895 and the 30-30 is BP by definition. There were no civilian loaded cartridges with smokeless, it's that simple.