Someone explain Steel to me

30 December 2003, 11:40

There is a bunch of steels I see advertised these days. From CPMS30V, ATS-34, 154CM, VG-10, 440C steels such as and high carbon like D2, 52100, M2, 1095, O1, A1, ect...

All I know is todays knifes are way to hard for me to sharpen. I have to buy fancy sharpening kits and all like the Lansky kit to sharpen. I can't use my old stones.

I have dozen's pre 1970 case XX pocket knives. About once a week, I take out my ultra fine wetrock, and give it a few hits, and these knifes are back to shaving me.

I got a Knives of Alaska Caper. So I butchered around 5 deer with it and the bushcamp model. So I figured I would touch up the edge a tad after all that meat handleing. Oh my goodness, I worked and worked for hourse with that caper on my Lansky with the rough diamond at a 20 degree edge to get down to the edge. The guys at Knives of Alaska said it has a 18degree edge, but I either disagree or my lansky isn't a 20 degree edge as advertised. This metal was so hard. I finally got a ok edge on it, but nothing like the old steel from the pre 70's. Sure, my older knifes get duller quicker, but I don't mind sharpening.

Who makes knifes or what type of metal mimics the older cases? Or could someone explain the different types of metals?

Thanks

30 December 2003, 13:01

fisk

Big Country
Get a bladesmith to forge you a hunter. Most bladesmiths use simple carbon steels such as the 10 series [1095,1084,1060 etc] while some use the 52100 which is a ball bearing steel. These knives will do the same as the pre 70's Case knives. I was doing contract work for Case making their dies for them to punch out the "new" case knives in the very early 70's. They had just quit drop forging the blades and went to cold stamping them so they had to reduce the carbon content at the time as the old steel was wearing the dies. By switching to cold stamping the blades they could produce more of 'em. Ah, money, as it is with many things.
There are a number of up and coming bladesmiths that can forge you up what you are looking for, established bladesmiths will be more expensive. You can try uncleal@ipa.net or call him at 870 642 7643. Uncle Al has quite a number of up and coming bladesmiths work for sale and he is honest. Good luck at it and let me know if I can help with anything else.
jf

04 January 2004, 19:08

DMCI*

Quote:

Steel is iron with carbon in it.

This statement threw me for a loop initially. Metallurgists who work with primary steel spend a lot of money taking the carbon out of iron ore.

However, upon reflection you are correct. Pure iron(Fe) which doesn't occur in its pure form in nature generally is found as an oxide or as an ore containing high carbon content.

But if we raise the temperature of iron to nearly 3000*F and blow oxygen into it, most of the carbon is burned off and the resulting product is steel.(Bessemer Process) Then tungsten, chrome, molybdenum, vanadium, and other alloys are in minute quantities to change the characteristics of the final solution.

The gentleman is correct it just seemed that he had the cart before the horse for a minute there.

D.

04 January 2004, 23:41

ncboman

goodness it's good.

I have never read such a bunch of shat ????

anyone that commercial fishes knows the value of a knife cut from an old crosscut sawblade. draw sharpened with a file, it is more than one cat's meow.

scientifics matter little when the fish are fresh and the time short.

row is worth 10X the fish.

06 January 2004, 23:41

mete

The two common barrel steels are 4140 (chrome-moly) and 416 stainless steel. They may be the free machining grades of these steels. There are many opinions about which is best but certainly exactly how the barrel is made is of great importance.

07 January 2004, 00:48

Jiri

http://www.bkcg.co.uk/guide/steels.html

Jiri

08 January 2004, 12:40

DMCI*

Quote:

I'd like to ask you a question that your six years in school will most assuredly allow you to answer. My barrel is made from 416R stainless. Can you give me a few sentences about the characteristics of this steel as opposed to a chrome-molybdenum used in gun barrels? How does it differ; how is it the same; which is more up the task?

416R from what I gather is a proprietary stainless specially prepared by Crucible for barrel making. Here is the analysis of that material:

CRUCIBLE 416R Stainless

Carbon 0.12%

Manganese 0.40%

Silicon 0.40%

Chromium 12.50%

Molybdenum 0.40%

Sulfur 0.13%

The total doesn't add up to 100%. This is because the rest of the solution is IRON(Fe). See steel is mostly IRON.

This steel is indeed intended to by free machining and fairly homogeneous when heat treated. When properly process is fairly rust resistant.

4140 on the other hand is an Alloy Carbon Steel:

Note the difference in the chemistry:

C: 0.38-0.43

Mn: 0.75-1.00

P mï¿½x:0.035

S mï¿½x:0.040

Si: 0.15-0.35

Cr: 0.80-1.10

Mo: 0.15-0.25

Note the higher content of Carbon and the much lower content of chromium in the 4140. Its this chromium in the stainless that gives it the rust resistance properties.

Medium carbon alloy steels like 4140 are recognized as strong, tough and durable, having excellent heat treat ability.

Steel can really be thought of as a solution. It solidifies much like ICE, except at extremely high temperatures. The Bessemer process burns all the carbon out of the iron. Carbon is added back to the desired level. Alloying materials are added as well to obtain the desired physical properties such as heat treat ability, strength, toughness, corrosion resistance, etc.

So 4140 alloy steel is designed to be extra tough and durable, while 416 Stainless steel is designed to have enhanced properties of corrosion resistance.