I went Saturday to ride a horse I was thinking about trading for with a friend of mine.
I have been on at least 5 rides with this horse present & he seemed to be a very good horse.
I saddled him up & put my saddle bags on then his bridle, got on him and was riding him around their yard to loosen both of us up a little & he broke in half throwing me over the dark side of the moon and kept bucking for some time afterward.
I couldn't move without sever pain in my back so I got my 1st ambulance ride. There were no fractures but have 3 bottles of feel good pills to help me for the time being.
This horse has never acted like this & my friend is torn up that I got hurt on his horse.
The only thing I can think of is that the saddlebags spooked him.
After my friend got back from the hospital he lunged the horse with my saddle & saddlebags & he bucked all the way around the pen.
He re-saddled him with his saddle without the saddlebags & lunged him again & everything went fine, then rode him for 2hrs. without any issues.
What do ya'll think happened to cause this?

The basic problem is he ain't a mule.

And probably younger than 12.

The problem you describe is the saddle just about 99% of the time...Describe the saddle, make etc, a photo would help..may have some nails that have worked thru or perhaps just doesn't fit the horse and its pinching him..I would bet dollars to donuts that is your problem, the clue is his saddle didn't make the horse buck...It's a very common occurance. A saddle maker could probably find the problem if you take the saddle and horse to him...I see a lot of cheap saddle that do that, and even a few high dollar saddles that do that..That is one reason they make different size trees. Trees for quarter horses don't normally fit a throughbread type horse and visa versa, for instance.

Sometimes the addition of two saddle blankets will solve the problem, sometimes not..I use a real Navajo wool blanket over one of the new modern blankets with some kind of stuff than really protects the horses back, both are expensive, but so are vet bills.

I always use 2 blankets, 1 regular & 1 thick wool, it could very well be the saddle, but for now I think Will hit the nail on the head. He ain't a mule, but he is 12.
Am taking the saddle in this week to have it checked out & the felt replaced, but I've ridden it on my 2 horses & they didn't have any problems with it.
It's an Amerack that I bought used last year, rides real good.

Another option is to use a "Corrector Pad"..It will make a bad saddle fit a lot of horses..I use gel pad and heavy Navajo on my horses...

Put a sheet on your horse, powder the sheet then put you saddle on snug...take the saddle off and it will show you pressure spots that can cause the horse pain, and that will sure transfer to you the rider...A 12 year old horse is in his prime of life and should not buck without a reason unless he was never broke right in the first place....You should be able to show some space between the horses withers and the bars of the saddle while your mounted, at least be able to insert your hand between the withers and the saddle, that is a major cause of a problem such as you have..If that saddle is pushin on his withers (spine) they do tend to buck.

Mr. Ray I certainly appreciate your insight on this matter, but chances are I will never get on that horse again.
I have 2 horses I can ride without fear of becoming an astronaut again.
I think I'll let my buddy know what you suggested & He can deal with it as he see's fit.
A 14yr old girl recently rode him in a parade & the grand entry at the rodeo with no problems. It could very well have been my saddle.
I think tomorrow I'm going to go buy a fast stick horse with training wheels.

You mentioned both Saddle and Saddle bags removed for the uneventful ride. changing two variables at once removes the chance you can say definitively. Saddlebags on bouncing on the loins can cause horses unused to it a problem. Horses with back problems due to muscle cramping, long story avoidance in action here, will show great pain in the loins.
Something in your gear caused the horse a problem and he told clearly about it is the conclusion I guess.

Sorry you hit the ground bc. I'm with Mr. Atkinson on thinking it was the saddle.

I picked up a 13 year old gelding last year. Thick, heavy built quarter horse, tough, gritty. Every time I rode he would buck a little, usually just a small crow hop or two...but it always happened. A couple of times he got pretty rank and once he really let it go....I hit the ground on that one. Switched from that saddle which had a semi to one with a full quarter horse tree and he hasn't bucked since. I should have done it sooner, but from all I could see/feel the semi tree was a good fit, no dry spots, couldn't find any palatable soreness, no white spots or noticeable rub patterns.

Now that I've typed this I may have ensured that he'll cut loose on the next ride regardless of saddle used.....

Same thing happened to me in 1966; I have not been on a horse since then and have not missed anything.

The fact that the young girl whom I sure weighed less than you is a clue its the saddle putting pressure on the withers or kidneys. could be some nails comin thru..

I sold a great roping horse to a local fellow, and that old horse started bucking, and he never bucked a day in his life..the buyer was upset with me and I told him Id buy the horse back..He backed off then and the next thing I heard was his saddle maker found 12 nails sticking out under the sheep skin, He had the saddle repaired Im still ready to buy the horse back but he won't sell him for any amount..that old cheap saddle even repaired is a wreck waiting to happen..

Lots of things can make a good horse buck if your not aware..My old rope horse will bog his head and bellow and buck like a tornado, but only when his hip and spine get a little displaced..fortunately he will let me know by laying his ears back and lightly nipping at me..I know then its time for the chiropractor, once worked over hes good for another year or 500 steers..

These things are an investigation, and until one figures out the problem it won't normally go away..Most of the time you can find the problem just by watching them move, when you can't then look at your saddle, and try other saddles and see what happens. Hope this helps.

I am convinced it was the saddle on this horse.
I've used this saddle on my 2 riding horses for 6 0r 7 months with no problems, but it must just fit them ok.
Rode my brown horse last week in a parade & again in a team sorting today with it, no problems. I even won $31! I have some other health issues & my wife is not real happy with me for continuing to ride. I just wish she could understand how much I feel alive with a horse under me.
Our locals saddle smith is in the hospital & as soon as he gets out he's going to give it a thorough inspection and replace the felt.
Thanks for the feed back gentlemen.

You guys are all amateurs; I have not been thrown from, nor kicked by, a horse since 1966 either; that's when I realized that cars had been invented and I have not been near a horse since. Works well for me.

And then again, most horses I have dealt with are psychopaths... they like to kill the rider....

Horses are like a pack of hounds best owned by others.

Unless one needs a horse for rough country game retrieval or demanded by law wilderness areas.

There are better ways then a horse.

I grew up with horses on the farm did a lot of riding did a little horse logging.

My tractor ATV and other power equipment do so much more

Well I have to disagree with some, I believe the horse is Gods gift to cowboys but not farm boys and race car drivers, to each his own, I have rode, trained, roped calves, team roped and broke horses and hunted mostly horseback all for many years, they are my first love, not guns, not hunting, not building custom rilfles, all of which I do, but the horse is first and foremost in my life, the rest is biz-ness....They are a kind gentle animal, and if they have problems, they were man made cause in man you cannot fix stupid, not their nature to be mean or dumb, they are an escape animal not a preditor, they may hurt you if you do something stupid to scare and they are big and might run over you if you are in their way, but you should no better to be in their way and perhaps take up another source of fun!

I remember what a dog man told me one time when I said I couldn't call one of his dogs off my cows..He told me I had to be smarter than the dog to teach them anything...Good thinking and that also applies to a horse.

I have very, very little experience riding horses. I respect those who grew up around horses and have extensive and intimate experience with them. For those people a horse is a tool, a hobby, a sport, and a friend. Simply put, I am not one of those people.

My last experience with a horse will remain my last experience with a horse. I was on a guided trip and was on what I was assured was the gentlest of horses. While peacefully walking along a trail, and without warning, my horse lowered his hind end and took off like a race horse out of the gate at the track. I was holding on for dear life. Remember, I have very little experience with horses. Nevertheless, I managed to hold my own for a hundred yards until the horse locked up and made an abrupt and immediate stop.

The horse's forward motion was entirely checked but Newton was having his revenge on me. As I flew forward my motorcycle skills kicked in. I shot forward to one side, the trajectory taking me over the horse's right shoulder. I was spinning like I had come out of a rifle barrel with a 1-in-48" twist. I rotated and flailed in what seemed to be slow motion. I well recall looking skyward and saying to myself, "make sure you get your right foot out of the stirrup". Thankfully, I was successful in that task.

I must have attained an altitude of seven feet when the rotation stopped. Still, I continued forward, belly up, losing altitude as fast as a cruise missile out of fuel. As I fell downward I knew what was coming but I could do nothing to stop it. Then everything came to a halt as I impacted the hard, rocky trail, landing supine with my back arched over my hard, lumpy day pack. I rolled over with great effort, and after several minutes, I was able to rise in agony.

The guide said he though the horse must have caught scent of a bear down a draw we were passing. That explanation offered me no solace. I spent the next day in camp on my back and the following two days walking to and from the baits. At that point in the trip I would have been much happier eating the horse then riding it.

As I mentioned, my last experience with a horse will remain my last experience with a horse.

quote:

Originally posted by Atkinson:
Well I have to disagree with some, I believe the horse is Gods gift to cowboys but not farm boys and race car drivers, to each his own, I have rode, trained, roped calves, team roped and broke horses and hunted mostly horseback all for many years, they are my first love, not guns, not hunting, not building custom rilfles, all of which I do, but the horse is first and foremost in my life, the rest is biz-ness....They are a kind gentle animal, and if they have problems, they were man made cause in man you cannot fix stupid, not their nature to be mean or dumb, they are an escape animal not a preditor, they may hurt you if you do something stupid to scare and they are big and might run over you if you are in their way, but you should no better to be in their way and perhaps take up another source of fun!

I remember what a dog man told me one time when I said I couldn't call one of his dogs off my cows..He told me I had to be smarter than the dog to teach them anything...Good thinking and that also applies to a horse.

Ray,
I hear you on this. I have been around them a lot and I hate them a lot. Since a little guy, I have been stepped on, bitten, tossed and run over at most encounters with them. Further, everyone I have ever known who really loves horses has a list of injuries from them that make an NFL linebacker look like a school girl.

Just this year, two of my best friends who spend a considerable amount of time on a horse were tossed and hurt pretty bad by horses they each owned for over 15 years.

I appreciate the horse and the work they do, but they are dangerous to all who get on them....

Well Im 82 now and been horseback since I was 3 years old,actually rounded up cows in my dads lap at 6 months old if that counts..In that time I have had a split lip, and a sore body on a couple of occasions...Way less than high school football, or fist fights in bars after a rodeo etc. (we used to do that fair and sqare, no knives or guns)and had a big ass okie knoch the living crap out me AFTER I have him my sunday punch, whew!!! stitches galore!!

Life non matter what dishes out some bad news!

If you really want to get hammered, hug up to my good friend Will and getcha self a Mule..He has yest to figure out that God, has a since of humor and put the Mule on this earth to get even with cowboys for their wicked ways!!

Ray
Saturday before last I rode my first mule.
I really liked it. He was smoother than most horses I have ridden. Man only wanted 10 grand for him.
By the way, the horse that chunked me got sold last week & has a new home in Fl.

Here in the Catskill Mtns riders prefer mules as they don't get hysterical on seeing a bear !

An outfitter that has bear scared horses needs to be selling shoes for a living at Sears..A dude horse should be bullet proof and they are in a good outfit..

I can and do put a 3 year old on my rope horses, One neighbor kid was a little slow and fell off, that old horse stopped cold then put one foot at a time over that crying little boy then turned and nuzzled him...That's a broke horse, the horses being described here were never broke or they wouldn't have reacted like they did..Sometime I don't think folks know when a horse is really broke..The may be calm most of the time, but just havn't had enough wet saddle blankets jerked off them..and I gurarentee their are more sour mules than horses on this green earth..

Don't get me wrong, I like a mule in rocky rough country, and they do have a smooth gait, but I don't trust them like I do a horse, and they can't run and get the job done like a horse..I like a good broke mule to hunt off off but like I said, I never really trust them, they are quirky at best..and that's the Gods truth!! My brother, cousins and I broke about 15 to 20 mules a year growing up for my dad and uncles. When season opened we took them to Colorado, hunted elk off them for a couple of weeks, then sold them to the local packers when we came out of the Wemenouche (SP?) wilderness at the Chimney rock store..The packers were waiting for us to show up..We did this for a number of years. Mules are hard to break, it takes a lot of effort and time to do it right, and a million wet saddle blankets, they gotta be rode to death...I'll add the breeding has a lot to do with that in that most mules are not very well bread, but that's another thread.

A Good horse needs a wet saddle blanket... Till I was nearly grown I thought a saddle came equipped with "Dr. legears screworm smear" in a old boot top. Our horses at the ranch wee too tired to buck..

quote:

Originally posted by Will:
The basic problem is he ain't a mule.

Got it in one!! Three years ago 2 guinea fowl flew into my Saddlebred/Percheron cross...I was bareback with a halter on the boy...buck, buck, broken humerus. A week earlier I'd been riding my mule, we stopped so he could look down the power line...a turkey was trying to take off from thick grass and got caught in his tail....gobbling, flapping and gobling. My guy just slowly looked back between his front legs, gave a sigh and waited till turkey flew off. He watched, sighed again and we walked on.

A mule kept me safe....my horse would have pitched me 30 feet up a tree.

The horse that chunked me went to Fl.& really showed his butt down there. He reared up & then went to bucking.
This horse has had MANY months of western pleasure training & had been a sweetheart of a horse for the original owner, but she never MADE her horses do anything out of the norm or that they did not want to do. Basically, they were all spoiled rotten.
Waaaaaay too many good horses to fool with bad ones.
Bought me a really nice 9yr old palomino gelding who's gentle, has an excellent personality & seems to really like me.
The one & only Team Sorting I've taken him to our team won. This horse has been well trained.
For now, I'm going through physical therapy for a slightly bulging disc & can only trail ride.
I absolutely love my horses, but I understand those that don't. We just have different passions.

I was doing some groundwork the other day with a horse I had never worked with before.

He is a big horse (half Clydesdale and half TN Walking Horse). I worked him for over an hour and he was just as tractable as can be.

I decided to take him back in the round pen for another 30 mins of work, when suddenly he decided he had had enough.

I managed to keep him under control for another 10 minutes, and then he let out a squeal and lashed out with his front hooves. I dodged those and then he commenced to buck and rear up.

I finally got him calmed down and led him back to his pen.

I am going back to work with him some more this morning, and it will be interesting to see how much work he will tolerate.

BH63

quote:

Originally posted by BuffHunter63:
I was doing some groundwork the other day with a horse I had never worked with before.

He is a big horse (half Clydesdale and half TN Walking Horse). I worked him for over an hour and he was just as tractable as can be.

I decided to take him back in the round pen for another 30 mins of work, when suddenly he decided he had had enough.

I managed to keep him under control for another 10 minutes, and then he let out a squeal and lashed out with his front hooves. I dodged those and then he commenced to buck and rear up.

I finally got him calmed down and led him back to his pen.

I am going back to work with him some more this morning, and it will be interesting to see how much work he will tolerate.

BH63

And that is the reason I hate horses.....

Most of the time there is a reason--- quite often ill fitting tack; pasture bound & fat-n-sassy; other times you've done something to flip the switch and then just because they can. I mean we can all get grouchy at times.

Rode one for miles coming back from a grizzly hunt. 6 hours later, last couple hundred yards or so when we got to the airstrip fucker tried to buck me off. Working cows last year on one of my wife's horses, just lopin along on the left flank and out of the blue that fucker dropped his head and was fixin to buck, but I caught it in time and jerked his head up.

I will say though I'd take a well broke horse that acts out every now and then over one of those fuckers that go straight to the fence to scrape you off. The latter horses are a god damned handful armful and just plain wear you out every time try to ride 'em. Not enjoyable to ride at all. Not worth it.

Those that try to act up- just don't let 'em drop their head. As soon as they drop their head, stop the bastard & circlin 'em and then back 'em up a few times- they won't do it again.

I am learning about horse back riding! With English, my impression is that the saddle goes with the horse, not the rider. Some previous responses seem to point in this direction as well. A few years ago I used to regularly watch a TV series called " Horse Whisperer". This guy had am amazing ability to diagnose and repair horse behavior issues.
Peter.

As much as I love my mules, they are not without their faults, at least some of them.

Back in May I was riding my black mule that I've ridden pretty regularly for the last five years.

She's always been kind of spooky. Scared of her own shadow. Always had been and always will be. I got snookered when I bought her, as usual. But I was able to control it, for five years, for an old man anyway.

I was out trail riding one morning and was riding next to a black top two lane highway for a short ways. She suddenly tore off in mortal fear through thick trees when a diesel truck went speeding by on the highway next to us. Couldn't stop her, of course.

I soon tired of dodging trees and getting chewed up by limbs!! When she got to an open spot I baled off for fear I was going to get decapitated if I rode it out any longer.

I tried to fly off spread eagle, out flat to hit the ground flat on my stomach. Luckily I did. I probably slid a ways but don't remember. I was just praying that I would survive.

After I regained my wits I was surprised I really didn't get hurt much. Took some skin off my left wrist from the limbs. Some small puncture wounds and cuts. Sore thighs and shoulder, and a mouth full of sand from hitting the ground. But I didn't even lose my sunglasses or cowboy hat!!

I had enough. I guess I was lucky she hadn't killed me. I sold her as a pasture buddy.

That mule never would have changed if i'd ridden her a million miles.

Reread this whole thread, some good advise and some BS, but I did see something that got by me the first time..

BC, you mentioned getting "new felt" for your saddle, that means your saddle is a low end beginners saddle so to speak, so have your saddle maker replace the felt with real sheep skin, it also has a fiber glass, and they tend to twist and turn in hard diciplines like roping etc...If your serious about your ride, spend some bucks on a good used handmade saddle, Try it out first if you can, to see if it fits your horse. I'd bet dollars to donuts your problems will be over in most cases..That said there is no one saddle that fits all horses anymore than a pair of shoes to fit all people. I realize the horse went down the road, but for future reference this is good advise.

As to mules and horses, you can't compare one to another unless your using them for the same dicipline, and you just can't do that.. The success of both is the trainer and the owner, either of which will make or break a good horse or mule..Inasmuch as AR isn't the ultimate blog of horsemanship, I would guarantee if most here would get on my rope horse and chase one steer, they would never get on another horse in their life, its the kind of power that makes you feel like your ass just exploded when he comes out of the box after a steer..My point being everyone needs to buy a horse that fits them, and that is well trained and dead solid broke, no holes in them, one that meets you at the gate and trusts you and you trust your horse, It will be a life changing experience and days of enjoyment, not the nightmare that some describe.

Ive never been able to teach a dog to do a damn thing but be my totally out of control best friend. Its the same with horses, some folks are not horse people as Im not a dog person to any extent. That doesn't mean all dogs are wild and will bite you, the same for the horse.

I agree low end saddles often create more problems than they fix.

However, I am going to offer another thought. It may simply have been the addition of the saddle bags. Not all horses readily accept saddle bags bouncing behind the cantle. My current horses is an example of this. His early training was for the show ring. No saddle strings, no saddle bags, no nobles hanging, no rope ...well you get the idea. I had to train him to accept all these. If I stop tying the bags on for a while I have to reacclimate him to the bags. One day of ground work usually is enough. So if the day you got tossed was the first ride you ever took on him with bags that may have done it or st least contributed.

My next adventure with my horse is to teach him to pull things attached to the lariat. I plan to start small with soft items to keep us both from getting hurt.

One of my fave horse stories. Outfit I believe in the dakotas was gettin ready for roundup. Had a mare that would just lay down and nothing you did would get her up. A youngster been hangin around lookin for a job walked up as they was standing around scratching their heads. Said if I get her up can I have job? Boss said sure. He went off to the barn and came back carrying a cat and dropped it on that horse. He got the job.

This is not a low end saddle to me.
It was made in 1989 and has seen extensive use.
I bought it used & it needed some TLC, so I had the felt replaced & cleaned it & oiled it good.
To me, it's a hell of a fine saddle, though to someone else it may be junk.
I am convinced that it was the saddle bags.

I too have seen some really nice saddles with new felt or fleece. Since the saddle spears okay on other horses I lean towards the bags as well. Glad your okay. I have nerve damage in my left arm due to getting dumped off a horse.

Horses always have a reason for what they do. Find the problem and solve it.

I been working with a really big gelding that the previous owner was scared of.

Had him blow up on me once and he still tries to bite occasionally but he is well on his way to being a good saddle horse.

Just takes time and patience.

BH63

^
Got bit by a little mustang mare Wednesday. LOL Just when you think you got it figured out.

BH63

Did I mention I still hate horses.... yep, I did...

Cooksey,
Right on, I grew up roping sheep, goats, cattle and horses and doctoring screw worms every damn day for 10 to 16 hours on our West texas ranch bording Mexico and the Big Bend Nat;l park....When they started droping those boxes and eradicating the flys I knew the good Lord had me in mind..Life as we knew it changed forever didn't it..

For those that may not have heard of the screw worm, it was the larva from a particular fly that came North form Mexico, laid its eggs in a opein wound and if not treated devoured the animal so to speak...They dropped sterial flys who bred the wild flys and they died without laying any eggs, they had a two week life span.

Of interest here is to the best of my memory, the fact that Texas went from 300,000 deer to over to to over a million deer in three years or something like that, and Lord knows how many deer they have in Texas today. Those figures may be incorrect but it was phenominal amount of deer that the flys killed every year.

It's been a few years since I saw an estimate of the Texas deer herd but best I remember it was 4 million.