So what twist should these barrels have for 400 gr. bullet? 16"? 14" ??

Pac-Nor seems to be the only one making this caliber and they are 16". Seems kind of slow.

Will,
The CIP standards from 2002 update:

Same twist for 450/400 NE 3" and 3.25": 1:381mm = 1:15"

That is the same twist shown for the 450 NE 3.25" too. Pretty fast compared to the 1:21" standard for the 470 NE.

I would go for a 1:14" twist if I had that choice.

1:16" is slower than CIP standard.

Well, my mentor, Mike Brady, has steered me in the right direction. Douglas can supply me with the correct barrel.

Will,
Don't be a curmudgeon in every thread.
Tell us what TWIST is the RIGHT TWIST according to Mike Brady.

Sheesh!

I apologize for Will's lack of etiquette.
FWIW, Douglas makes only a 1:14" TWIST for the 405Win which I assume is a .410-caliber same as the 450/400NE3". Hornady bullets are said to be .410-caliber.
Douglas is smart on that one.
That is what Will did not want to reveal.

Again, my apologies for Will's rudeness.

RIP,

I was looking for the correct bore size and not so much which twist. Mike didn't think 16" would be a problem with convential bullets but with mono's would probably be too slow.

So your recommendation of 14" should be about perfect. Thanks.

Will,
Same caliber, different cartridge I used a .411 Douglas barrel when I had my #1 rebarreled to .405 Winnie.

I believe I used a 14" twist or faster. It shoots the 400gr Woodliegh bullets at 2,050fps and puts them on top of each other at 100 yards.

Douglas has some options for twist, contact them as see what they say.

Will,
You are forgiven.
Don't let it happen again.

quote:

Originally posted by RIP:
I apologize for Will's lack of etiquette.
FWIW, Douglas makes only a 1:14" TWIST for the 405Win which is .410-caliber same as the 450/400NE3".
Douglas is smart on that one.
That is what Will did not want to reveal.

Again, my apologies for Will's rudeness.

Ripper,

It wasn't that I didn't want to reveal anything but I don't want to pass on info from Mike secondhand. A privacy thing I guess. But then I just did on twist rate, so there you go. The Douglas barrel for the 405 Win. and 14" twist. I feel so naked, but so relieved.

quote:

Originally posted by Will:
RIP,

I was looking for the correct bore size and not so much which twist. Mike didn't think 16" would be a problem with convential bullets but with mono's would probably be too slow.

So your recommendation of 14" should be about perfect. Thanks.

Wait a minute!!!
You have not told us whether the correct groove diameter is .410" or .411"!!!

Come on now, what is it with Douglas, according to Mike Brady?
The Douglas web site just says "405".

Rick R says its .411"

Hornady bullets are .410" or what???

RIP,

In this major mystery of life, of which few of God's creatures care, here is the poop, as I have learned so far today:

Hornady bullets: 0.410" diameter.

Douglas 405 Win. barrel is REALLY 0.410 and not actually 0.411.

Even if the Douglas barrel is 0.411 conventional bullets will swage themselves up to 0.411 when flying down the barrel, so it is a non-issue.

Even 0.408 bullets will swage into a .410 barrel.

Oh, mystery of life at last .....

Moderator: Give Will a gold star.

Anyone know what is the original twist rate used by Holland & Holland for the 500/465?

465H&H

Apparently RIP has a copy of the CIP standards. I'm waiting for him to reply.

quote:

Originally posted by 465H&H:
Anyone know what is the original twist rate used by Holland & Holland for the 500/465?

465H&H

CIP standards from my "source" are at hand, but Lord only knows what the H&H lords actually used, so trust but verify the following:

500/465 NE TWIST is 1:711.00mm = 1:28"

500 NE 3" has a CIP TWIST of 1:381.00mm = 1:15"

577 NE 3" and 600 NE 3" are both 1:762mm = 1:30"

700 H&H NE TWIST is 1:732" = 1:27.6"

500/416 NE 3.25" TWIST is 1:420mm = 1:16.5"

Rip- What no 1:10 reccomendation for the ol 450-400? You wimping out? You sick? Be consistent at least.-Rob

Rob,
O.K.
Sure, I would prefer a 1:10" TWIST .410 barrel.
Do you know where I could get one?

I haven't slugged the bore on mine so I'll defer to those who are in the know, the 400gr .411 Woodleigh soft points shoot into right around an inch at 100 yds and their fmjs shot under two inches. I'll have to get some of the .410 Hornady bullets when they become more available and see how they work.

Anyone who makes barrels. Pac-Nor makes the bore so tell them to change the twist for an extra $25.00.

Anyone else could do it for a small tooling charge for the whacko-bore/groove size.

The last time I priced the charge for new tooling for a 1:10" twist it was $500 to add new tooling for the twist, and wait 3 to 6 months for the tooling to arrive, then pay for the barrel, but not from Pac-Nor.

If Pac-Nor would do it now for $25 might as well get them to do a 1:7" TWIST .338 barrel too ... IF that is true.

Pac-Nor does have a 1:7" Twist .338 barrel as a standard offering, in choice of 5-groove or 6-groove ... along with 20mm or .825-caliber with 1:20" TWIST.

I wonder if a double should have a clockwise twist in the left barrel and a counterclockwise twist in the right barrel.

If you call Pac-Nor they'll tell you that their changing of twist involves swapping cams in their machine. If they don't have the cam then you're SOL. If they don't have the bore tooling (drill, button, reamer) that'll get your attention $$$.

Bartlein Barrels has newer digital equipment with infinitely variable twist at the click of a mouse.

Make all your stuff smoothbore RIP them you can send all your work to a deep hole driller with no set-up!!

quote:

Originally posted by 500grains:
I wonder if a double should have a clockwise twist in the left barrel and a counterclockwise twist in the right barrel.

That would be a righthand twist in the left barrel and a lefthand twist in the right barrel.

This is the way it ought to be to make the rifle torque symetrically from right and left barrels ... might add some degree of "autoregulation" or facilitate the regulation process.

However the right barrel would torque the stock into the face of the right-handed shooter, and the left barrel would torque the stock away from the face of the right-handed shooter.

Has no double rifle maker done the "ambi-twist" before?

When bullets weigh 50 lbs and leave the barrel at 100 fps rotational torque will be a factor.

quote:

Originally posted by Will:
RIP,

In this major mystery of life, of which few of God's creatures care, here is the poop, as I have learned so far today:

Hornady bullets: 0.410" diameter.

Douglas 405 Win. barrel is REALLY 0.410 and not actually 0.411.

Even if the Douglas barrel is 0.411 conventional bullets will swage themselves up to 0.411 when flying down the barrel, so it is a non-issue.

Even 0.408 bullets will swage into a .410 barrel.

Oh, mystery of life at last .....

One footnote:

The Douglas "41 Mag" caliber is 0.410. Perfect.

quote:

Originally posted by Will:

One footnote:

The Douglas "41 Mag" caliber is 0.410. Perfect.

Perfect for what?
A 450/400 NE 3" Howdah pistol?
Ambi-twist?

Perfect for the 0.410 Hornady bullets. They come in any length Ripper.

Searcy are .410.5 as I recall....I have seen English rifles in 450-400 run from .407 to .411.5...It is always a wonderful idea to slug your English or German barrels, both of them!