NEW BIG BORE DOUBLE

15 May 2002, 15:18

POSEUR

NEW BIG BORE DOUBLE

OK call me a wannabe, but I just ordered a new Kodiak MkIV in 45-70 from Cabela's. I hope I didn't screw up buying this rifle. I decided to get it after reading so many good reviews here on this forum.

If you guys could give me just a little more help I would appreciate it. I know some of you have one of these very rifles and I am wondering if you have any pet loads you would be willing to share?

Thanks in advance, alot!
Casey

15 May 2002, 20:43

<Rusty>

Casey,

Congrats on the new rifle! I know you will have lots of fun with it!

Rusty
We band of brothers.

16 May 2002, 03:28

MacD37

Casey, I suppose you know you have just contracted a disease, that there is no cure for! The only treatment for it is more double rifles. Some of the side effects are, finding your training in handloading will not work with a double rifle, and the effect of needing ever larger chamberings to satisfy!

About your new purchase, you will find this is a supriseingly well made rifle, and if it is like the two I own it will handle the loads for the Ruger No1 with ease.

One of mine has been re-chambered to 458 RCBS and I use the powder charge for the 500 gr bullet, with a 400 gr bullet and it shoots right to the factory sights.

The rifle you are getting is a little different than mine, in some ways, but mine were bought very early in there existance, as one of mine was bought before they were actually available to the public, and is sereal No 136. and only cost me $900, but the price they run today is a bargain for sure. .........ENJOY!

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..Mac >>>===(x)===>
also DUGABOY1
DUGABOY DESIGNS
Collector/trader of fine double rifles, and African wildlife art

16 May 2002, 05:09

<PWN>

Casey,

I have the same rifle with an after market ghost ring sight. I have killed 2 deer, a hog and a coyote at about 75 yards with mine. I bet your rifle will print factory Winchester 300 grain loads perfectly and will give you good accuracy with Garrett +P loads. They are very classy looking guns with neat little features that would cost a pretty penny to order on a custom double. You will be very happy with the rifle and will have been infected with "double fever" for a quarter of the cost of even a bargain NE double. I took the plunge and am having mine converted to 450 NE no. 2 and should have it back from the shop next week. I hope I didn't ruin a great 45-70 double, but will let you know how it turns out if you are interested.

Perry

16 May 2002, 09:39

DPM

Casey,

You will love it. I got one as a gift from my wife a few weeks ago and it shoots great. I have shot the Winchester factory stuff and reloaded some 405 remingtons with 3031. I kept them beteween 1400-1700 fps and they all shot well. I hope to try some 500gr SP tomorrow. I have only shot out to 100 yds, but those 1 galon plastic milk jugs don't have a chance.

16 May 2002, 10:25

Who make these double 45/70's and are they available in Australia. Any Aussies know what they are worth in our currency???

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16 May 2002, 11:30

POSEUR

Thanks everyone.
MacD, are you loading up to the maximum Ruger No1 levels or somewhere in between wnd which manual are you referencing?

Perry, who is converting your rifle to 450 NE? You bet I am interested in hearing all about the conversion and the performance of the rifle.

Thanks again,
Casey

17 May 2002, 01:04

MacD37

Casey, The Davide Pedersoli (that is who makes the Kodiak Mk IV) rifle was regulated with 300 gr WW factory ammo, but when I got my Pedersoli the only loads I had on hand were for my Ruger No1 45-70, so I tried them in the Pedersoli, and they shot right to the factory sights at 100 yds. The load was from the SPEER reloading manual No 11, and was useing the Speer 400 gr FLN, in front of 58 grs of IMR 3031, WW brass, standard LR primers, (60.0 grs is max with this bullet in that manual). Bullets seated, and crimped into the front canular(spl),Nearest the nose of the bullet. The fired cases simply dropped out of the chambers into my hand, no sign of pressure at all. When I got some factory 300 gr loads, they shot right to the sights as well.

I would start with 55.5 grs of IMR 3031 all else the same, and work up in your rifle.

The other one was re-chambered to a wildcat cartridge called 458 RCBS, designed by Fred Huntington, in a Remington Rolling block. The load he listed for a "500 Gr" bullet was 65 grs of IMR 4064, and I use that powder load, but substitute a 400 gr bullet, It shoots to the sights as well. The 458 RCBS is made from 45 basic brass, trimmed to 2.75" and has a water capacity of 100.13 grs, compared to the 45-70 which is 2.105 in length, and has a water capacity of 75.51 grs

Both these rifles, and loads shoot a 4 shot group of less than 3" at 100yds, fired right, left, right, left, Fore hand resting on sandbags, with the rifle not touching anything but ME!

Depending on how PWN's rifle comes out, I will porbably re-chamber the 458 RCBS rifle to 450NE#2 like his!

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..Mac >>>===(x)===>
also DUGABOY1
DUGABOY DESIGNS
Collector/trader of fine double rifles, and African wildlife art

17 May 2002, 10:50

POSEUR

Mac, thank you very much. You mentioned that there are differences between you rifles and mine. Any idea what they are and can you provide more information as to the nature of the changes?

Casey

18 May 2002, 02:33

MacD37

Casey, the first difference is the origenals were engraved on the rib near the chamber end with " TRAIL GUNS ARMOURY", and just ahead of that there were two flip-up adjustable sights. The barrel assembly is Browned like a muzzle loader, and the fences are not carved like yours. Next the method of latching the forend to the barrel assembly is different. Mine has the ANSON latch, and yours has a DEELEY latch, here is an example: www.hallowellco.com/shotgun.htm#forend

Your rifle is lighter, and finished better, but the ones I have were prototypes, and they are much better finished today, plus the 9.3X74R is available as well!

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..Mac >>>===(x)===>
also DUGABOY1
DUGABOY DESIGNS
Collector/trader of fine double rifles, and African wildlife art

19 May 2002, 01:46

POSEUR

Mac, thanks a ton for the information. The people at Speer must have gotten sued big time as their Reloading Manual 13 lists 54 grains of IMR 3031 as the maximum load beneath the 400 grain FLP. I think I will start with 54 grains and work my way up to 58.

Casey

19 May 2002, 08:46

DPM

I was also looking to have my Kodiak rechambered to 45-120, but my gunsmith said that the barrels were brazed. If after the rechamber job the rifle needed to be reregulated it could not be done.

19 May 2002, 09:25

<eldeguello>

I'm encouraged to hear that these Pedersoli double .45/70's are so well regulated. That's unusual for such a reasonably priced double.

20 May 2002, 06:39

MacD37

quote:
Originally posted by DPM:
I was also looking to have my Kodiak rechambered to 45-120, but my gunsmith said that the barrels were brazed. If after the rechamber job the rifle needed to be reregulated it could not be done.

The above statement, by a gunsmith, is an indication of the lack of understanding of double rifles by even otherwise very
knowledgable people, when it comes to double rifles. The Pedersoli can be re-regulated the exact same way all other double rifle are re-regulated. This gun smith just doesn't want to re-chamber this rifle, because he doesn't know how to go about the job, and doesn't want to admit it!IMO!

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..Mac >>>===(x)===>
also DUGABOY1
DUGABOY DESIGNS
Collector/trader of fine double rifles, and African wildlife art

20 May 2002, 08:21

DPM

Macd37

Do you know a smith that would rechamber a Kodiak to 45-120? Mine shoot very well in 45-70. Also can you explane how this double would be reregulated. I assume that the barrels would have to be taken apart and wedged or pinched to get it to shoot right.

Thanks

20 May 2002, 11:01

MacD37

DPM, The re-regulateing of any double rifle is done that way. It is not a cheap job, and some places will not take on the job at all on the Pedersoli. Champlins is one that will not. I have absolutely no idea why, unless they just think it is beneath them to work on a Pedersoli. You might E-mail PWN375@aol.com His name is Perry, and he is haveing a Pedersoli re-chambered for 450NE#2 as we speak,by somebody in Tulsa. So he may know if the guy will re-chamber your rifle.

Here's the deal, you are takeing a chance re-chambering the Pedersoli, to anything, simply because it may not shoot after you do. In that case, the only recourse is to re-regulate the rifle. This job runs about $700 plus the cost of ammo, it could run as high as $1500 depending what cartridge you want. To top this off you have to find someone willing to do the work. I would be willing to bet there are no more than twenty people in the USA who are qualified to re-regulate a double rifle. I do this for myself, but I will not do it on anyone else's rifle, the cost of a screw up is simply too high. I lucked out with my Pedersoli, and it regulated fine with the new chambering,to 458RCBS. The re-chambering to 45-120 will probably not gain you anything since the modern 45-70 will do anything the 45-120 will do,and the 45-120 uses a .451 dia bullet, not .458. The longer the case the more you are likely to have to use filler so modern powders can be used effectively. The 458 RCBS is 2.75" long, and I get by without haveing to use fillers, but anything longer will require it, IMO.

If your Double rifle shoots very well with the 45-70, I would shoot it that way for a while, and at least get a little use out of it before you take a chance on a big disapointment. I hate to throw cold water on your enthusiasm, but I would be remiss if I didn't tell you the facts of life where re-chambering double rifles is concerned.

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..Mac >>>===(x)===>
also DUGABOY1
DUGABOY DESIGNS
Collector/trader of fine double rifles, and African wildlife art