Waffenfabrik Hein Rifles - Poor customer support

20 October 2007, 16:46

quote:
Originally posted by 458Win:
...Do you quit going to doctors or dentists because your appointment was set for 10:00 and you don't get to see him till 11:00 ? Or get off an airlines because they have a "delay"? it happens all the time and knowledgeable folks understand that - right or wrong.

I would not mind too much if its a 10am but got in at 11am,or even next week for that matter. But what Snowolfe is talking about is going to an appointment he made 12months before, getting in at 10am, but getting to see the Doctor at 10am the same calendar day,NEXT YEAR!...(maybe)

20 October 2007, 18:10

Marc_Stokeld

I did not mean to imply that it was Ok for Hein to handle Snowolfe's case as he did. I think it may have come across that way, but all I was trying to comment on RGB's projected output and what it really takes to do top tier work.

I would have handled Snowwolfe's situation by contacting him when I knew the date would be missed. This is something all gunmakers need to start doing, but few do. At some point, the client can decide if they want to go through with it or cut their losses and move on.
Unfortunhately, few gunmakers act proactively and contact the client early on.

I learned a long time ago that if I contact someone early and give them a heads up, it is greatly appreciated and goes a long way towards keeping things happy. This has worked well in all of my busienss ventures and corporate jobs. I wish more gunmakers would do this. Few do, and there are sveral reasons for it. For one, as I mentioned earlier, few gunmakers have good scheduling skills.

JKS-

I have owned non-gun business, and all but 2 of my friends are small busienss owners. I can tell you right now, custom gunamking is different. Way different. The only firend I knew who had a similar business was an artist (painter). But even that was different. Far different. I have also had the employees, payroll, medical, disability, retirement, blah blah blah. I know whereof I speak.

Would take too long to explain it all with me typing with my 2 fingers, but trust me, custom gunmaking is different from other businesses. Of course many basics of business are the same regardless of filed, and it is this basic knowledge I mentioned in the previous post. Almost every gunamker I know would benefit from business training. Few are interested in getting it. If gunmakers knew what other business owners need to know, and apply that to their gun business, then customers would be happier and some gunmakers would be less stressed.

Don't think it will happen any time soon, but at least we can dream!

20 October 2007, 19:01

El Deguello

quote:
what constitutes poor customer service is quite subjective. Some folks want their hands held all the time and others could care less as long as the end result is good.

Very true! But in this case, it appears the customer received NO customer service at all, at least, as far as he was concerned. I think his experience qualifies as "poor".

20 October 2007, 21:11

Roland1

Interesting thread, some think no problem let the s.cker wait, quality is what counts, courtesy and communication out the window. Artists and gunsmiths are just that way.

Well that is not true, I have purchased quite some custom guns and 90% where done in time. No communication problems with the late ones either(resolved the issues in an easy way). Only one company pulled a trick a bit similar to Snowwolveâ€™s experience, HS Precision 6 to 8 months was promised 20 months before they delivered.

Unfortunately with this type of events gunsmiths/artists receive negative publicity which is not right, I can give Snowwolfe many gunsmithsâ€™ names that work in a timely manner and make an excellent product for the same price he had to pay.

And like Phil pointed out, things can go wrong in live and might affect a business, but the very least you own your customer is an explanation.

Roland

21 October 2007, 06:21

CRUSHER

guys we only know part of one side of this story all I can say for sure is I never had any trouble getting greg or wff hein on the phone.

they alwayws answer my questions and have been very helpfull in working on my new action project and some other projects that no one else would even look at including a few that post on this board. to date I have taken up a good deal of time and paid them exactly nothing for their help we are working together tward an order of actions and some other projects will be done when they are done and they will make mony then but I have never been made to feel that I was a burden on them.

I send them my friends and customers for work I cant or wont do "I have a day job" and everyone has been happy so far but they all get sent to hein with a health dose of reality. as in this will take a long time and will be done when its done but for the mony you cant beat them. so far We are 100% I dont think it will change.

02 November 2007, 07:51

Snowwolfe

I received my depost today so this issue is closed. I woulld of rather had the rifle in the time frame promised to me but that decision was out of my hand.
Lesson learned: I will never again order a custom rifle unless the company promising the rifle will sign a contract agreeing to knock 3% off the price each month the rifle is past due. If the company will not agree to this then I refuse to do business with them.

03 November 2007, 01:30

CARLOSTHEJACKAL

It is unlikely that a custom gun maker would sign a contract to those terms. IMO.

03 November 2007, 03:40

Idaho Sharpshooter

Maybe not, but the guy who built our last house did...$100 a day...I never got a cent out of him because of that clause, and I was here every day watching the place go up.

Rich
DRSS
Knowledge not shared is knowledge lost...

03 November 2007, 10:21

Blair338/378

quote:
Originally posted by Snowwolfe:
I received my depost today so this issue is closed. I woulld of rather had the rifle in the time frame promised to me but that decision was out of my hand.
Lesson learned: I will never again order a custom rifle unless the company promising the rifle will sign a contract agreeing to knock 3% off the price each month the rifle is past due. If the company will not agree to this then I refuse to do business with them.

Good way to put the pressure on them Snowwolfe

May I ask if you received the interest on your deposit monies?

03 November 2007, 10:27

Blair338/378

quote:
Originally posted by CARLOSTHEJACKAL:
It is unlikely that a custom gun maker would sign a contract to those terms. IMO.

I know some custom knife makers who would. So why shouldn't the gun makers.........?

Though on the other hand, I just received a custom watch from Allen Elishewitz that took over 18 months to arrive and the deposit was very generous.........very.

But the watch is everything I hoped for and more.

03 November 2007, 19:09

CARLOSTHEJACKAL

Good luck in finding that custom gun maker. Perhaps one should look in never never land.

03 November 2007, 21:39

FMC

quote:
Originally posted by FMC:
quote:
Originally posted by CRUSHER:
QUALITY

LOW PRICE

FAST TURN AROUND

PICK TWO ONLY

Yes and no. It's either one (quality) or the other two. None of those two should go together...just ask Paul Masson....

Custom rifles take time and patience. Bill Soverns has built several rifles for me. My conversations with him usually include the following "Uh, what actions and wood do you have of mine, I kinda forgot,,,,," and "Hey Bill send me a pic of my blanks again, I forgot what they look like...." etc etc etc. But you know what, every rifle he has built has been absolutely beautiful.

I almost purchased an Echols Legend when they were still $8K, the wait then on a synthetic stocked rifle was about two years. Patrick Holehan, who used to work with F.Wells in Tucson is up front : 18 months before I can begin to build, assuming no delays.

It's just par for the course.

These guys get behind, sometimes because of themselves and sometimes because of other circumstances. But they all get behind, after all they are gunsmiths NOT CNC machines/robots.

I never call a smith because of time or asking about when the product will be delivered. I do call, but out of friendship, as I believe one ought to have a relationship with them. I try to be pleasant and have a conversation, "how's it going etc." I tell them of my hunts, email them pics of my trophies/animals, etc, and just say hi. Nothing more nothing less. I never ask about delivery time. If they want to tell me fine, if not I do not ask.

As long as you are getting e-mail responses I would only try to temper any impatience. These guys are busy, they're trying to get caught up! They are not going to initiate any conversations with you, they are busy!! And they sure as shit ain't gonna want to talk to someone who's busting their balls (even though you have avery right to do so).

While I, both as a consumer and an assshole believe the customer is always right, this does not apply to a custom rifle. You need to know that going in. Gunsmiths are on gunsmith time, not standard time. 18 months means 18 months +/- whatever. Besides, who cares
as long as they do build a quality rifle. It's not as if you need that rifle. If you're spenging 4-5 figures on a rifle, you really shouldn't need it right away anyway.