What? No posts on the 2 bore?

01 July 2003, 14:40

Alright you shoulder cannon lovers--why hasn't anyone posted on the 2 bore that was featured in the latest edition of the Double Gun Journal? Just curious! Where have all the real men gone? [Big Grin]

[ 07-01-2003, 05:41: Message edited by: ACRecurve ]

01 July 2003, 14:48

jeffeosso

Ah, Yes, the 2 bore...

I can't make up my mind to shoot it, or sleep in it!!

jeffe

01 July 2003, 16:27

Karl

What! where?
I'm not sure if I can get that journal here- can anyone scan or send it, or post some info?

regards,
Karl

01 July 2003, 17:31

Grandpasez

Great magazine.Published a 100 miles NW of me
here in MI.Never could afford it.It has great stuff for big bore double lovers.Magazine is great
quality and expensive.Ed.

01 July 2003, 19:23

derf

2 Bore??

What calibre whould that be? derf

01 July 2003, 20:08

Karl

Derf,
Around 1.35".
Ed,
Did you get my mail about your cartridge cases?

Karl.

02 July 2003, 00:52

If I owned a 2 bore I would have so many gaps to fill in my collection as I like to step rifles up by 100 gr of bullet weight. It is an expensive bloody process. I have enough gaps to fill between .585 & .416 [Big Grin]

02 July 2003, 04:45

Nickudu

quote:
Originally posted by ACRecurve:
--why hasn't anyone posted on the 2 bore that was featured in the latest edition of the Double Gun Journal?

Perhaps it's all 2 Boreing. [Wink]

02 July 2003, 11:34

500grains

I doubt that anyone who has fired a 2 bore would have enough neurons left to post about it.

02 July 2003, 11:52

700 nitro

ah come on dan is that any way to talk to one of your friends

i had a 2 bore and fired it many times i loved that rifle but with a 700 nitro double rifle coming i had no use for the 2 bore.

the bore dia was 1.314
i used a 1.300 ball and a 18 thou patch and a half inch think felt wad between the ball and powder i used a charge of 550 grns of fg black powder.

02 July 2003, 15:05

Karl

quote:
Originally posted by black-powder-big-bore:
i had a 2 bore and fired it many times i used a 1.300 ball and a 18 thou patch and a half inch think felt wad between the ball and powder i used a charge of 550 grns of fg black powder.

This is the load generating over 17500ftlbs in your two bore(according to you), which is over 500ftlbs of recoil in a 25lb firearm.

I remember when I pointed this out to you last time, you dissappeared from the forums for about a year.Then you promised us later on you would come clean and leave your all your lies behind.

550ftlbs recoil... many times..

Karl.

[ 07-02-2003, 07:09: Message edited by: Karl ]

02 July 2003, 16:30

Cannon

I recently had a chance to handle a massive 25 lb. falling block rifle in 4 bore. The owner had it custom built 20 years ago or more, and it was designed to handle full-power smokeless loads. He has pushed 2200 grain conicals as fast as 1800 fps. He will readily admit that recoil at those levels is absolutely brutal -- and this guy shoots ground squirrels with a 600 Nitro.

The owner is a friend of John Ross, (author of unintended Consequences,) who had a similar rifle built in 2 bore. I'm not sure what the 2 bore weighed, but they stopped at 1750 fps with a roundball (that was cast hard and weighed somewhat less than half a pound.) John Ross wanted to try for 2000 fps, but this gentleman convinced him that they were at a point where the rifle had the potential to do serious physical damage. He is convinced it could kill a shooter who hadn't worked up to those loads and learned how to shoot it.

03 July 2003, 02:42

ACRecurve

Double Gun Journal can usually be found at Hastings or Barnes and Noble bookstores with the periodicals. Cost is $12 to $15--don't remember for sure. Annual subscription cost in the US is about $37 for 4 quarterly issues. It is always very well done but it makes me lust after guns that cost more than I make in a year! [Big Grin]

Good Hunting,

03 July 2003, 04:05

<Fuzz>

An old gunsmith friend of mine,Chet Parnell of Tenino WA had a nice 2Ga. It had a nice yoke on it to mount it to the bow of a boat. [Eek!]

That would be the only way I would shoot a 2 bore.
Fuzz

03 July 2003, 05:14

500grains

quote:
Originally posted by black-powder-big-bore:
ah come on dan is that any way to talk to one of your friends .

Oops. I was referring to cartridge rifles, but I suspect that the front stuffer kicked just as bad. And didn't yours have a steel or plastic butt plate?

03 July 2003, 06:12

Lar45

I was talking with an old timmer at the Gun corral the other day. He built a muzzle loader from a 40mm barrel. He said they were shooting 5000gn + bullets in it. He showed me the blood stain in his ear muffs from the last time he shot it.
I think he was serious

03 July 2003, 08:33

Overkill

Now when I have understand that there is no gun that can knock down or stopp a animal. Then the 2-bore is just nothing for big game. A .600 OK will make a bigger wound channel with expanding bullets. And a .700 Will make much bigger with expanding bullets. The 2-bore is just a antik black powder gun [Razz]

03 July 2003, 09:31

Mickey1

Overkill
I believe that the 2 Bore projectile is bigger in the barrel than the expanded 600 OK. Sorry [Frown]

03 July 2003, 15:15

Karl

As I was thinking of getting a 2 bore I researched the 2/huge bores I could find and notice people take the same liberties with stories of their rifle, as a 45-70 owner does amongst his small bore buddies.

Severely reduced charges is the most common.

An 8 bore load in a 2 bore behind the half pound ball and it rolls out the barrel at only a few hundred fps.

"Hell, that was 1300fps and 500ftlbs of recoil at least".

I read a 2 bore needing 700-800 grains to get some of the velocities mentioned in the above posts, yet we have these velocities quoted with something closer to a 4 bore load
[Roll Eyes]

Karl.

03 July 2003, 19:25

CZ 550

The article in DGJ was actually kind of disapointing.

03 July 2003, 22:16

Overkill

Mickey1! Yes [Frown]

But a .700 expand to the double diameter is 1.400 the 2-bore is 1.300 [Big Grin]

And with a velocity of 3200 fps it will also give more shock effect [Big Grin]

04 July 2003, 00:43

Karl

Overkill,
The 2 bore ball will retain a higher velocity through the animal than an expanding 700 cal. hence more 'shock effect' throughout the length of the wound. [Wink]

Karl.

04 July 2003, 02:48

Overkill

Karl! The 2-bore only have a velocity of 1300 fps! The 1000 grainer will create a hard shock when it hit the animal with a velocity of 3200 fps and expand. The 2-bore will have 17700 joule of energy and the .700 BMG IMP will smack with 30800 joule [Big Grin]

Wich will give the biggest shock effect?

I think that a 1200 grain hawk soft nose bullet in the .700 would be good. Expand to 2,5-3 times it orginal diameter. Big wound [Razz]

04 July 2003, 03:16

Mickey1

Overkill

If you shot a .700/1000 grain bullet at 3200fps from a hand held rifle, I don't think you would be able to measure any bullet expansion for awhile.

s

I also would like a copy of the video. [Wink]

04 July 2003, 06:07

Overkill

Mickey!

Do you think about blackpowderbigbore that have shoot his 2-bore with 500 foot pound of recoil energy is hurt? [Big Grin]

The .700 BMG IMP rifle wil have a weight over 30 pounds [Wink]

04 July 2003, 09:49

Karl

On small game yes.
But on the largest game 'shock' doesn't count.
Retained velocity over several feet of penetration is what counts.
I doubt the woodleigh bullets, pushed 1000 fps too fast, would penetrate more than a foot or two.

[Big Grin]

Make up your mind mate whether you are using SI units or imperial. Joules and fps in the same sentence...tsk tsk

Karl.

04 July 2003, 10:34

Mickey1

quote:
Originally posted by Overkill:
Mickey!
Do you think about blackpowderbigbore that have shoot his 2-bore with 500 foot pound of recoil energy is hurt?

Do I think he is hurt? [Big Grin]

You've read his posts, do you think he is still okay? [Roll Eyes]

One thing it did was knock his ability to use capital letters all to Hell. [Eek!]

How many pounds of powder in the .700?

[ 07-04-2003, 01:36: Message edited by: Mickey1 ]

04 July 2003, 15:03

700 nitro

karl that was the load i used i mis quoted the foot pound figures (sorry but i am human)

the actually foot pounds of energy with the 550 grn load is 13000 foot pounds give or take 500 foot pounds

Mickey i didnt know that my lack of use of capitol letters annoyed you so much oh well.

[ 07-04-2003, 06:04: Message edited by: black-powder-big-bore ]

04 July 2003, 16:55

Grandpasez

Run the two bore through the formula, and it has less than 300 fp lbs recoil with 25 lb rifle.Ed.

04 July 2003, 16:59

Mickey1

quote:
Originally posted by hubel458:
Run the two bore through the formula, and it has less than 300 fp lbs recoil with 25 lb rifle.Ed.

Less than 300? Well, I apologize for doubting. Shoot my nanny could shoot that. [Eek!]

04 July 2003, 23:40

Karl

what formula Ed?
I use a simple one I think I read from Ed Matunas or might have been here even.

Bullet weight + (1.5 x powder weight), /7000, x velocity of bullet ,squared, / 64.34, / rifle weight.

Comes up with over 500ftlbs.

Recoil calculators here
www.beartoothbullets.com ,
www.huntamerica.com
www.handloads.com/calc/recoil.htm
www.bp-tec.com/recoil_calculator.htm

Give similar figures

[Confused]

Karl.

05 July 2003, 05:55

Grandpasez

Karl-- I ran the bullet wt of 2000 gr and 500
gr of black powder through my velocity formula,
and the velocity is high enough(14-1500 fps)to generate about 300 ft lbs of recoil,when put into recoil math.Ed.

05 July 2003, 08:59

Karl

That's correct math mate but going from memory I think BPBB's claim was a 3500grain round ball in the 2 bore. [Eek!]

Karl.

05 July 2003, 17:42

Grandpasez

It will take a lot more than 550 gr of BP to
get a 3500 gr ball up to 1500 fps.And you can't use finer granulation to try to get it, or the
pipe comes apart....Ed.

13 July 2003, 20:01

Karl

That's another point I have hounded BPBB with for quite a while.

I fear he will actually have to alter the laws of physics to dig himself out of the BS this time.

Karl.

14 July 2003, 14:42

Robgunbuilder

I've fired a .700 RLG Improved at 3000fps with a 1000gr monolithic solid into solid oak logs alligned endwise and about 2 ft in diameter. The bullet went through 4 FEET of oak! It didn't expand at all, nor did it deviate from a straight line! All it shows is the rifling marks. You could in fact reload it and shoot it again! That is by far the highest penetration I've ever seen from a shoulder fireable gun!! In comparison a military .50 BMG ball went through 3 logs and also stopped, but didn't follow a straight line! A 470 MBOGO will go through 2 logs with solids! A 30-06 will usually do 1 log! Have not tried the 600 OK-1 yet on the logs, but expect 2 logs at 2150 fps.
Recoil was SERIOUS! I would like to see the 2 Bore load that would duplicate that! More importantly, i would want to see what was left of they guy who fired it!-Rob

14 July 2003, 15:16

cas

One of the projects I've always wanted to do, is a Biiiig bore muzzle loader. Golf ball sized to be exact. To fire a patched golf ball in fact. Ya know.. a fun gun. Super big bore, cheap available projectiles, that don't weigh so much that they'll dislocate your shouler. Hmmmm..... someday.

14 July 2003, 16:44

Grandpasez

Cas--You sure could find out how strong golf
balls are, and cut recoil.Patched aluminum balls
would cut recoil.Rob is right in that to get a two bore round ball to penetrate like his projectiles in the 700 BMG they would have to be hardened and at such a velocity , at least
2500 fps, it would take
an 80 lb rifle to shoot 3500 gr..And a 1/2 lb of
black powder.Two bore round balls still have a
lot of knockdown power at 14-1500 fps,but comfortable shooting means a 30 lb rifle.It is
an effective rifle if you can handle it.Does anyone have one and a chrono.With test info??Ed.

15 July 2003, 09:53

Socrates

Heard someone showed up at the Linebaugh seminar with a 4 bore.

NO ONE would shoot it...

s

15 July 2003, 10:49

Karl

Ed,
Even a 30lbs 2 bore at 1400fps will have recoil over 400ftlbs- not comfortable enough for me [Smile]

And the therorectical 2 bore at 2500fps with 1/2 pound of blackpowder gets over 2000 ftlbs recoil from an 80lb gun.
I aint firing it [Big Grin]

Karl.