The Accurate Reloading Forums
Need help building a new 50, what to build
23 March 2003, 03:27
Dr. MichaelNeed help building a new 50, what to build
I want to build a 50 that will fit and cycle through a standard magnum bolt action, what are my options and why?
I have also been contemplating a couple of other things. Is a mauser action strong enough, or should I get a weatherby action because of modern metallurgy? What is the biggest parent case to use? I found an old out of print gunsmithing book and was reading about the 458 american, essentially cut off any belted magnum cse off at the shoulder and set a 458 cal. bullet. would a 460 weatherby neck up to a 50 and still be made to feed reliably in a large magnum action? I hope you get the jist of my intent.
Please consider, I have my own custom shop to play in. I do a lot of restoration work on doubles and build long range precision rifles, so I am well equiped. I have built 50bmg sniper setups, but I want a realistic weight hunting gun. essentially, I have just never played with the 'african game rifles.' BUT I WANT TO;-)
thanks
Doc
23 March 2003, 04:06
GrandpasezDoc-Use the 500 A-Square.Ed.
23 March 2003, 04:12
Dr. Michael500 A-square?????
what is it?
how do I make it?
what do you recommend for an action?
thanks
Doc
There's too little information about your desires to offer up much opinion...
For example, are you interested in using the magazine? (May limit caliber choice vs. action chosen)
What type of bullets do you want to use? (Short and fat vs. long and skinny, see above)
Are you staying only within the CFR action realm? (If not, there are custom actions available that might fit your needs (BAT and Nesika for example))
What type of ballistic results are you wanting?
Is this for carry or is it bench?
If for carry/hunting are you interested in muzzle brakes?
If not interested in muzzle brakes what kind of weight do you desire?
Those are just a few items that come to mind.
Whenever a Rem 30 or a good Enfield comes up there are quite a few people that talk about conversion to 505 Gibbs. You may search on some of those terms (505 Gibbs, Rem 30, p14 or p17 Enfield) as they've been discussed often.
Otherwise, the Mauser, if of good or better manufacture has some wonderful safety features not found on other designs. I think this new Montana action has many of the Mauser safety features but is of new construction and can be had at a reasonable price. What I don't know, but would presume to be true, is whether it's available in a magnum length. I haven't kept up with that topic so I can say little more.
Oh well, just thinking while typing.
Good luck.
Reed
23 March 2003, 05:29
Mingbogoquote:
Originally posted by Dr. Michael:
500 A-square?????
what is it?
how do I make it?
what do you recommend for an action?
thanks
Doc
500 A-Square is basically a 460 Weatherby necked up to 50 caliber. Just use 460 Weatherby brass and neck it up to 50 caliber with 500 A-Square dies from CH4D or RCBS. As for an action, Weatherby Mark 5 should work as well as CZ 550 Safari. Have fun.
23 March 2003, 05:52
dan belisleOr with a bunch more work, you can use a P14/17 Enfield action. - Dan
The 500 A2 would be the easiest road to a big bore 50 I would think.
24 March 2003, 14:28
416SWI may be wrong, but I beleive the 500Jeffery is able to be built on a standard mauser action, but brass would be harder to find than 500A2.
Personally I would want a 505Gibbs necked upto .510(50cal) Olympia make a magnum mauser action
[ 03-24-2003, 05:31: Message edited by: 416SW ]Personally, I would forego the nostalgia for the practicality of the 500 A2, based on easily available fine brass like the 460 Wby. Properly headstamped brass can be found for the 500 A2.
If I am traveling the globe, I prefer the .416 Rigby, for anything and everything.
The 500 A2 stays stateside for homeland security purposes, and for hunting brown bear and one ton bovids.
The 500 A2 is also a swell target rifle for 1000 yard plinking with 50 BMG target bullets.
If you want a real precision chamber, Kevin Jenkins, in Brentwood Tennessee has:
my .510 JAB reamer made by Dave Manson
my Clymer 500 A2 standard reamer
my .510" any-throat-you-want reamer by Dave Manson
Kevin pumps cutting lubricant through the barrel while he reams. Chips are continuously flushed away, and concentricities are in the millionths of an inch.
![[Wink]](images/icons/wink.gif)
Or something like that. The above reamers have been used one time each in the development of my own 500 A2 variant, unless that fellow BMG has finally decided on the one he wanted used.
The AAA Ammo 705 grain "Harlow" semi-borerider target bullets would go into 0.170" for three shots at 100 yards from my rifle. That was 705 grains at 2125 fps for a gentle and accurate target load.
The 600 grainers go 2400 fps, and the 570 grainers go 2450 fps.
I will be loading GSC FN 570 grainers and Barnes XLC 570 grainers at 2450 fps for bear. That is all the power I can handle.
500 A2. That's the one.
Some call it also, the 50 Peacekeeper, or .510 JAB. It really started in the 1950's as a 50 Buhmiller necked up from .378 Weatherby brass.
[ 03-24-2003, 06:12: Message edited by: DaggaRon ]27 March 2003, 16:24
GrandpasezDoc--Are you the adventuresome type. You might be
interested in the absolute biggest bore that 460
Weatherby cases can used for.The 550 that we are discussing on the 550 thread. Put you in real big bore company.Please check it out.Ed.
27 March 2003, 16:56
RobgunbuilderHonestly the way to go is a 500A2 throated for .50 BMG bullets on a CZ550 ( start with a .416 Rigby action). A good piece of wood or major reworking of the cZ stock and you are in buisness. I've done a few of these and they flat out work!An honest 570 gr bullet at 2600 fps. That is a potent round! They next logical alternative is the 585 NYATI( don't go there till you talk to me first) or the .600 OK ( soon to be completed). Trust me ,I've actually been down all these roads!-Rob
[ 03-27-2003, 08:03: Message edited by: Robgunbuilder ]29 March 2003, 00:31
Thomas MRobgunbuilder,
Whith the long troat of the 500 peacekeeper, are there any drawback when shooting, say, 570 grainers?
And what about the twist, is it possible to get both 750 grainers and 525 (?) grainers to shoot?
Think a .500A2 whith a long throat for the 700-750grain target bullets would be a fun project.
![[Big Grin]](images/icons/grin.gif)
29 March 2003, 01:13
jeffeossoThomas,
I built my 500 jeffe with a .350" longer throat to shoot pulled bullets, and it shoots EVERYTHING else well. i used a 1/18 twist, to allow for cast bullets
jeffe
29 March 2003, 02:56
500grainsquote:
Originally posted by Dr. Michael:
I want to build a 50 that will fit and cycle through a standard magnum bolt action, what are my options and why?
By a 'standard magnum bolt action' I assume you mean something like a Win. model 70 that started out as a 375 H&H or 300 H&H. If so, then there are no options for you that are reasonable to undertake.
If you mean a cz550 set up for 416 rigby, which has a magazine box that is subtantially longer than standard, then a 500 A-Square is the way to go.
Ed,
"A man has got to know his limitations." That is why I stop with the 500 A2 equivalent. I can handle that in a 10.75 # rifle with no muzzle brake. I wish for no more punishment than that.
A .505 Gibbs would be neat in the right action, but the brass situation is not as handy as necking up the 460 Wby. Nor the bullet situation.
500 A2 is sweet.
Thank you John Buhmiller, its originator. A rose by any name would smell as sweet.
30 March 2003, 19:52
<Pfeifer>Dr. Michael,
"I found an old out of print gunsmithing book and was reading about..." - I'm a sucker for old gunsmithing books too! Which one was it?
One that I haven't seen mentioned yet is the 495 ASquare which is a 3.6" OAL cartridge with a "ghost shoulder" ...detailed in the ASquare reloading manual. I don't know about the brass availability details which may be reason alone to steer clear - but A2 claims accuracy and "lowest recoil of any cartridge in its class" (due to smaller case volume I presume). Anyone here have any better data on this one?
JeffP