THE ACCURATERELOADING.COM BIG BORE FORUMS

Accuratereloading.com    The Accurate Reloading Forums    THE ACCURATE RELOADING.COM FORUMS  Hop To Forum Categories  Rifles  Hop To Forums  Big Bores    416-458-50 SS-50 B&M Series Cartridges/Rifles
Page 1 ... 65 66 67 68 69 

Moderators: GeorgeS
Go
New
Find
Notify
Tools
Reply
  
416-458-50 SS-50 B&M Series Cartridges/Rifles Login/Join
 
one of us
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by michael458:

and this was the first time a 500 or any B&M has been put on a Montana Action.

Michael



Sounds like great times by all.

We had SSK build a 9.3 B&M on a WSM length Montana Action about two years ago. It made it to "the compound" and we looked at and fondled it a bit, but come to think of it not only did we not shoot that one, we didn't shoot at all on that visit!
Had to play with magazine spring (went back to Winchester OEM) to achieve proper feed of all rounds
down.



 
Posts: 223 | Registered: 30 March 2011Reply With Quote
one of us
Picture of michael458
posted Hide Post
Stockbroker.....

I forgot about that 9.3 B&M of yours......... We were too busy messing with stocks to do any shooting, I can't remember how we could have been that busy, but it was a short trip you made, I think overnight??? Will have to make a new plan for longer visit...........

M


http://www.b-mriflesandcartridges.com/default.html

The New Word is "Non-Conventional", add "Conventional" to the Endangered Species List!
Live Outside The Box of "Conventional Wisdom"

I do Not Own Any Part of Any Bullet Company, I am not in the Employ Of Any Bullet Company. I do not represent, own stock, nor do I receive any proceeds, or monies from ANY BULLET COMPANY. I am not in the bullet business, and have no Bullets to sell to you, nor anyone else.
 
Posts: 8426 | Location: South Carolina | Registered: 23 June 2008Reply With Quote
one of us
posted Hide Post
Yep. Problem solving trip.
Seems like we took apart/put together stocks and rifles x about 300 different ways.
At least you got a good cup of coffee out of it, eh?
 
Posts: 223 | Registered: 30 March 2011Reply With Quote
one of us
Picture of michael458
posted Hide Post
quote:
At least you got a good cup of coffee out of it, eh?



Absolutely Correct..... Stockbroker is a "Coffee Snob"............

I want to revisit Tank's 500 MDM just a bit, and show you how good this thing shoots with that EoTech mounted..........





http://www.b-mriflesandcartridges.com/default.html

The New Word is "Non-Conventional", add "Conventional" to the Endangered Species List!
Live Outside The Box of "Conventional Wisdom"

I do Not Own Any Part of Any Bullet Company, I am not in the Employ Of Any Bullet Company. I do not represent, own stock, nor do I receive any proceeds, or monies from ANY BULLET COMPANY. I am not in the bullet business, and have no Bullets to sell to you, nor anyone else.
 
Posts: 8426 | Location: South Carolina | Registered: 23 June 2008Reply With Quote
one of us
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by michael458:
quote:
At least you got a good cup of coffee out of it, eh?



Absolutely Correct..... Stockbroker is a "Coffee Snob"............

I want to revisit Tank's 500 MDM just a bit, and show you how good this thing shoots with that EoTech mounted..........






I don't know Michael,seems to need some work,I can see space in between the rounds! stir


Simply, Elegant but always approachable
 
Posts: 354 | Location: New Jersey | Registered: 24 May 2011Reply With Quote
one of us
Picture of tanks
posted Hide Post
My fault probably. I was lifting the foreend of the stock to line up at the target rather than moving the butt of the rifle on the back rest to control the elevation aim point.

It wasn't until I noticed Michael shoot some loads for measuring the velocity that I realized I had the wrong benchrest technique. Eeker
 
Posts: 925 | Location: Southern CA | Registered: 01 January 2014Reply With Quote
one of us
Picture of michael458
posted Hide Post
Tanks....... I'll take that group any day of the week and then some...... seasons is pulling your leg... HEH........ That's mighty fine shooting, and to kick it off, with the Eotech, no magnification...........


http://www.b-mriflesandcartridges.com/default.html

The New Word is "Non-Conventional", add "Conventional" to the Endangered Species List!
Live Outside The Box of "Conventional Wisdom"

I do Not Own Any Part of Any Bullet Company, I am not in the Employ Of Any Bullet Company. I do not represent, own stock, nor do I receive any proceeds, or monies from ANY BULLET COMPANY. I am not in the bullet business, and have no Bullets to sell to you, nor anyone else.
 
Posts: 8426 | Location: South Carolina | Registered: 23 June 2008Reply With Quote
one of us
Picture of michael458
posted Hide Post
Any of you guys ever get caught with your pants down around your ankles while in the bush hunting Dangerous Game?

shocker

Well, I have, literally, but that is another story for another day! Point I want to make is about POI.. or
"Point of Impact"..........

Way back in the day, many moons ago, I was on a kitty cat hunt in Mozambique. Since I was not hunting anything else, I was loaded for kitty.......... While hunting kitty, we came across a belligerent elephant that was looking for trouble. The only thing I had was kitty cat bullets, while it was 458 caliber, I really did not believe the kitty bullets were going to help very much, but you can bet your rear I would have filled him full of them if he had pressed, and then RUN LIKE HELL for a BIG TREE.... Or something... LOL.......

Yep, caught with my britches down around my ankles.......... No more! I never went to the field again without bullets and loads to cover every single possible situation I might run into, and in that tool pouch there were ALWAYS ALWAYS ALWAYS SOLIDS............... Solids can get you out of a lot of trouble, even if you are not looking for trouble..........

When I started getting serious about buffalo hunting, POI was extremely important, for that first shot one likes to run a "soft" or today a trauma inflicting NonCon or mono up front, and follow up with solids. So its imperative that those two bullets have a close enough POI to work together for your mission.......

I have sent literally 1000s of rounds down range trying to get various softs/solids to close enough POI to work with. In the end, I was always successful doing this, some rifles easy, some not so easy, but I find a way............. Sometimes you have to change bullets, powder, drop velocity, add velocity, both, or all, or other, to get it right.......

This was of all import to me with the #13s when we went to what is now called the Raptors, or #13 HPs... I bet the farm that if you took the solid and just put the HP and kept bullet length the same and bearing surface, if you used the same load, then both solid and HP would be in the same hole, and if not in the same hole, then very close together. This has held true for every rifle I have ever worked with, and that has been a few.........

Since the invent of the 250 gr .458 CEB, #13 Lever Raptor the first, and now the 250 Socom we opened up new doors in .458 caliber and performance we have never seen before in this caliber. Last year I took my 458 B&M 18 inch GunKote rifle to South Africa and Zimababwe, for both plains game and later to Zimbabwe for buffalo, hippo, crocodile and elephant. I had both of the 250 gr bullets running at 2900 fps and 1 inch high at 50. Both 450#13 Solid and 420 Raptor dead center to 1/2 inch high at 50, all dead straight up and down in a row together. 3 bullets all the same POI at 50 yards, or close enough to work with and do anything you want. I was extremely successful with this combination.

Later, I came back and did the same thing with my Alaska 458 B&M with the Snow Ultimate stock. But this rifle is Primary the 250s for all work in Alaska of course........ But always good to have that solid along for that brush regardless..........

Sometime later, LionHunter's Son In Law decided he wanted a 19 inch 458 B&M I had here. I set it up exactly the same way, without any issues at all to speak of........

I was beginning to think that since all the 458 B&Ms had the same barrels, same reamer, same everything, they might all shoot this way........

WRONG...... Just when you think you know something, well, fact is, it teaches you a new lesson...... LionHunters 20 inch 458 B&M just would not do this. With 450/420 sighted dead on, the 250s were running
8+ inches high and 2 right?????? I tried everything, powder, lower velocity, the works, and nothing would pull the 250 closer to the 450/420s..... ???? Both LionHunter and myself scratching heads? cuckoo

After getting the rifle here I started working on it last week some with Tanks and myself to get some ideas anyway.... Since we wanted a plains game bullet to match up with our buffalo Raptor and 450 Solid, I tried everything, 295 Raptor, 300 Barnes, 325 North Fork CPS, 350 Barnes, and worked my way to the 370 Lever Raptor, which showed some real promise, so I pursued the 370....... I started working with several powders to see what I could do with POI, and yesterday I got some great results with RL 7 and RL 10X, but then I tried a few loads of H-4198 and it looked like the two groups, 370 Raptor and 450 Solid were so close that some holes overlapped...... We got it!

But there is some compromise to it, as always it seems...... The 370 Lever Raptor is a rather large bullet, it cannot be compared to other bullets of its weight class. To run the Talon Tips it has to be seated very deep and takes up a great deal of case capacity. Case capacity means we can't run the velocity we did with the 250s, so a compromise is made. At 68/H-4198 we run a dead steady 2459 + or Minus fps. As its sighted in right now about 1 inch high at 50, it will fall in place at around 200 yards. While a higher velocity 250-300 might give some better trajectory, this is one of the compromises we make, especially if we do not wish to mess with moving scope settings, and I normally do not like to do that once set.

One big advantage to the 370 Raptor solution for LionHunter is this, the 370 Raptor is very capable of handling buffalo along with all plains game within its range. Naturally buffalo would be closer, less than 50 yards..... So instead of 3 loads, LionHunter will have two for everything that walks......... Not all bad.......... Most certainly easy to keep up with.........



POI is always a good subject........ And there is much one can do to enhance ones experience in the field, by working with POI and having the right bullet for the mission at hand, and at the same time be as versatile as you can in the field..........

Michael


http://www.b-mriflesandcartridges.com/default.html

The New Word is "Non-Conventional", add "Conventional" to the Endangered Species List!
Live Outside The Box of "Conventional Wisdom"

I do Not Own Any Part of Any Bullet Company, I am not in the Employ Of Any Bullet Company. I do not represent, own stock, nor do I receive any proceeds, or monies from ANY BULLET COMPANY. I am not in the bullet business, and have no Bullets to sell to you, nor anyone else.
 
Posts: 8426 | Location: South Carolina | Registered: 23 June 2008Reply With Quote
one of us
Picture of capoward
posted Hide Post
Very good dissertation Michael...


Jim coffee
"Life's hard; it's harder if you're stupid"
John Wayne
 
Posts: 4953 | Location: Central Texas | Registered: 15 September 2007Reply With Quote
one of us
posted Hide Post
Michael asked me to post my latest stock trial results with my 500 B&M, so here it is.



Many thanks to Michael for furnishing me with a M70 OEM black plastic stock that was a take-off from one of his M70 RUM donor rifles.

The barrel inletting was opened up to accommodate the larger barrel diameter and the barreled action dropped right in. There was amber hot glue in the recoil lug cutout that was used by the factory to bed the action.

The stock had the Winchester OEM hard rubber recoil pad, one of the worst recoil pads ever to be inflicted upon humanity. The rifle weighed 7-1/4 lbs; I was sure that the light weight and the crap recoil pad would make it very unpleasant to shoot. I needed to shoot it in this configuration to establish a baseline for any changes.

I was right. As Michael would say, it was "hateful". Little muzzle flip but it really stung the shoulder. I was shooting North Fork 450's at 2300 fps, 5 shots was all I could manage.

Pachmayr makes a pre-fit Decelerator pad for this stock that is an easy fix, 5 minutes with a screwdriver and the factory pad was gone. The LOP was now 14". I put 12 oz of pencil lead in the front of the stock to bring the weight of the rifle, w/o scope, to 8 lbs. Slightly nose heavy.

The transformation was amazing.

Very little muzzle flip, very well mannered and easy to shoot. I put 12 450's and 5 500's thru it and could easily have done more. Long term sustainability to the pounding of the 500 B&M remains to be seen, but at this point it looks
like a winner.

Thanks again, Michael, for the stock Smiler
 
Posts: 1050 | Registered: 02 November 2003Reply With Quote
one of us
Picture of capoward
posted Hide Post
HT,

If that factory stock holds together you may have tumbled to an economical wet weather solution for those individuals who want to keep their nice wood stocks out of the water.


Jim coffee
"Life's hard; it's harder if you're stupid"
John Wayne
 
Posts: 4953 | Location: Central Texas | Registered: 15 September 2007Reply With Quote
one of us
Picture of michael458
posted Hide Post
HT....... Yes, that 500 BM in that stock would be hateful, no doubt, and that thing on the butt end cannot be called a recoil pad at all. Sounds like the addition of the Pachmayr has made a big difference......

Come to think about it, my 500 BM came from Brian in one of those stocks to begin with, at that time Wes and I were working on a special stock for that gun.... While it is a long RUM action, I had the barrel contour down to a 50 B&M, 18 in length of the 50, and so the MDM stock dimensions needed to be shortened to the B&M length and barrel channel..... I don't think I remember even messing with the rifle in the plastic stock however? I remember taking some photos...... But not anything else, so I don't recall that experience.....

Of course we still have no dies specific to 500 B&M... HT was able to cut down a set of 500 MDM dies and it works fine, I am using a size die that Sam made for me, and that is working fine, if not for that we would be up the creek waiting on HORNADY dies, that we currently are........

Hornady dies have been good to the B&Ms, and B&M guys. The last 18 months pulling chicken teeth has been easier than getting a set of dies out of Hornady...... We are still short on several B&Ms. And to beat everything, I sent a brand new set of 458 B&M Super Short dies to a fellow that had been waiting with his rifle patiently for months on end now. Sent them out last week, got a message this morning that the dies do not have expander ball? New set too.... I know that the cartridge will not chamber in the rifle unless that expander ball is used, I have tried it..... I opened two new sets of 458 B&M and 458 B&M SS, and none of the 458 dies have expander balls??????? Brian is contacting Hornady about this, so we see what we see...... Always some sort of crap it seems! But this die thing is nuts...... Yes, I know about the custom dies recently that RIP put up, and we are checking that out, and it might be an option for some of the B&M guys that are waiting right now.... Although far more expensive, but in some cases who gives a crap if dies are keeping you from shooting? And currently Hornady has "dropped the ball"......... SO TO SPEAK.. Pun INTENDED........ LOL...........

I am waiting on a new RIFLE.... But not a B&M..... A very close friend dropped in last week running around the country side with some new Christensen Arms rifles and handguns..... Handguns are really seriously High Grade 1911s..... Well, most of you know I have a passion for 1911 style handguns. IN several varieties, these things ran like machines on ball bearings they are so slick..... Yes, expensive, but wow you can tell there is a lot of time put into these. They also work, feed and function perfectly.... Very very impressive, I see a couple of these in my future.........

But what really caught me was the little AR style 308 rifle with 18 inch barrel! I had been used to these 10 lb monster rifles in 308 of this style, and this thing comes in at under 7.5 lbs and is a dream to shoot and play with.... Expensive, but seriously HIGH GRADE work. I could not help myself, I have to have one of these...... In the old days, these sort of 308s had little appeal to me because of the various 308 bullets available.... Very light, yes you could get velocity up to par, but the bullet was not worth a crap. All 150s + were just to heavy to do what I wanted in 308 with the 18 inch guns...... But guess what we have NOW? If you guessed that 100 gr ESP Raptor, then you would be spot on the money! Many of my pals here have been using this bullet in the field in their various bolt guns from 20-24 inches in 308, getting on average from 3200-3300 fps out of them, and they are lightening strikes on deer/pigs around here..... Incredible terminal performance...... Not so long ago I got a couple of big heavy 308s with 18 inch barrels, and worked loads for 3000 fps in those....... I ordered myself a new Christensen Arms light 308 with 16 inches of barrel, and will use the same loads in it and think I will be around 2850-2900 fps with it, and that will be very serious medicine for critters.......... I can't wait to get my hands on this one........... Its almost a B&M...... HEH...... Short and Light......... Their Carbon Fiber work is just incredible and precise, rifles/handguns are very very high grade and smooth as glass......... Check them out.... But do not tell anyone I have been playing with rat guns!!!!!!!! Plan on taking some rats out around here! HEH....

http://www.christensenarms.com

Later.....

M


http://www.b-mriflesandcartridges.com/default.html

The New Word is "Non-Conventional", add "Conventional" to the Endangered Species List!
Live Outside The Box of "Conventional Wisdom"

I do Not Own Any Part of Any Bullet Company, I am not in the Employ Of Any Bullet Company. I do not represent, own stock, nor do I receive any proceeds, or monies from ANY BULLET COMPANY. I am not in the bullet business, and have no Bullets to sell to you, nor anyone else.
 
Posts: 8426 | Location: South Carolina | Registered: 23 June 2008Reply With Quote
one of us
posted Hide Post
First its rat bores, then we will turn him into a handgun hunter! tu2

I am looking forward to seeing your results on that 308, heard nothing but good things about Christensen Arms


Simply, Elegant but always approachable
 
Posts: 354 | Location: New Jersey | Registered: 24 May 2011Reply With Quote
one of us
Picture of boom stick
posted Hide Post
Your short barrel thuddy thuddy did about 3k with that 100 ESP raptor IIRC. The 30-30 with that bullet is one hell of a combo.


577 BME 3"500 KILL ALL 358 GREMLIN 404-375

*we band of 45-70ers* (Founder)
Single Shot Shooters Society S.S.S.S. (Founder)
 
Posts: 27028 | Location: Where tech companies are trying to control you and brainwash you. | Registered: 29 April 2005Reply With Quote
one of us
Picture of boom stick
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by michael458:
quote:
Originally posted by boom stick:
Any terminal performance tests on the 100 grain 308?
Curious to see the cutting edge new and really improved 30-30 performance popcorn



Friend and B&M Owner from VA has been here for a couple of days, and we have been busy on the range. We did accomplish quite a bit, and I have loads of data to input on several various things.

One of the main things my buddy needed to work on was some sub-sonic rifle for his "canned" 308. So we did a lot with that, which is a pain of course. But, also learned some things about the 100 gr ESP Raptor in both 308 and 30/30 while we were at it. Working with a rifle with a can is about like working with a double rifle--look at it cross eyed and POI changes!

Also, this has me behind on other projects that I wanted to work on, like 338 data, LVSP on the new .510 cavity (99.9% sure about that anyway), but still gotta know 100%. And many other things. I got both of my 223s back with the new 1:8 twist barrels, kinda wanted to play with some Raptors with them as well!

But, I was curious about how the 30/30 would do with it's new HI SPEED 100 ESP Raptor!






Couple of points to ponder-- Adding the C-Talon Tip gave the bullet an extra 321 fps at 48 yard Impact! That is significant to say the least! This extra impact velocity as you can see gave it an extra 2 inches of penetration. More important than the extra penetration was the extra Trauma inflicted and a slightly different shearing of the blades. Blades were much longer and penetrated deeper with the extra velocity provided by the Talon Tip, than without. Well, naturally one CANNOT use the Talon tip in the magazine tube of a lever gun. But, one most certainly can load that first round in the chamber with a Talon Tip for that all important Shot #1. It's worth the extra effort to enhance the capabilities of the 1st shot. Of course in a bolt gun like 308 or others then tips are standard and work great.

I am so sorry, I have very little interest in .308 caliber. In fact, if it were not for these bullets, I doubt you could interest me enough to mess with it at all. And even now, my interest is starting to fade somewhat. I had to play with 308 Winchester today, only working with AA 2520, and no, I am not going to put anymore effort into 308. I have the 100 gr ESP Raptor at 3280 fps, zero issues, and nearly out of powder capacity, so that is about all I am going to do with it. I will test a couple of loads with the same powder with the 130 ESP Raptor, and that is all I am messing with it. I have better things to do than to dick around with a .308.

OK, how does the above terminal tests compare with other 30 cal bullet terminals I have done?? I did not remember either, so I looked back on my own .308 terminal test data! I found exactly only 3 entries recorded. So I have only tested 3 other bullets in .308 in my life! That should say something to you! First was a 165 Swift A Frame at 2929 fps muzzle--50 yard impact 13 inches total penetration. Then a 180 gr Woodleigh PP at 2831 fps muzzle--50 yd Impact 14 inches total penetration. Last a 180 gr Nosler Ballistic Tip at 2902 fps muzzle--50 yd impact 9 inches total penetration. All done on 5/7/2007, no impact velocities taken. And NO I am not messing with testing other bullets in .308. I don't have the time, nor the interest. Maybe the 130 Raptor, and that will be it.

Which, I have to say, I have been very envious of RIP's shooting abilities of late, and some of the targets he has posted! I have also been trying my best to out shoot the RIPPER, but have just not made it quite yet--today that 308 and the 100 Raptor may have come close? I keep trying!



577 BME 3"500 KILL ALL 358 GREMLIN 404-375

*we band of 45-70ers* (Founder)
Single Shot Shooters Society S.S.S.S. (Founder)
 
Posts: 27028 | Location: Where tech companies are trying to control you and brainwash you. | Registered: 29 April 2005Reply With Quote
one of us
posted Hide Post
[QUOTE]Originally posted by michael458:

I have sent literally 1000s of rounds down range trying to get various softs/solids to close enough POI to work with. Sometimes you have to change bullets, powder, drop velocity, add velocity, both, or all, or other, to get it right.......

I started working with several powders to see what I could do with POI, and yesterday I got some great results with RL 7 and RL 10X, but then I tried a few loads of H-4198 and it looked like the two groups, 370 Raptor and 450 Solid were so close that some holes overlapped...... We got it!


Michael,
Fascinating and much appreciated explanation of POI and working to match different loads. You have more hands on experience, with success in the end, than many of us may ever try.
So my question: which of the many variables do you try to mess with first when trying to pull POI together?
 
Posts: 223 | Registered: 30 March 2011Reply With Quote
one of us
Picture of LionHunter
posted Hide Post
Michael -

Thanks as always, for your hard work on developing a second, lighter round for my 458B&M. We were truly confused when it insisted on shooting the 250 SOCOM 8½" high. I am looking forward to getting it back, along with the 370 Raptors, and it will be going to the range soonest it is again in my hands.

Just less than 5 weeks and we're off again; Chewore North fly camp this time - gotta get out where they are. Ele, Lion, Leopard and possibly another Hippo are all on quota this year. Both our 458B&M rifles will be used for almost everything - using my Merkel 500NE for another Ele but will have 450 #13 Solids for the 458B&M should something go wrong with the DR. I proved the 450gr #13 Solid works on Ele in 2012. Frontal brain with only insurance required.

We'll see how the AI stocks handle things this year. Might even get some pics for Stockbroker Heh-Heh!


Mike
______________
DSC
DRSS (again)
SCI Life
NRA Life
Sables Life
Mzuri
IPHA

"To be a Marine is enough."
 
Posts: 3577 | Location: Silicon Valley | Registered: 19 November 2008Reply With Quote
one of us
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by LionHunter:

We'll see how the AI stocks handle things this year. Might even get some pics for Stockbroker Heh-Heh!


+1!
Looking forward to seeing how you handle the AI stocks!
Seriously, sincere best wishes for a successful trip!
 
Posts: 223 | Registered: 30 March 2011Reply With Quote
one of us
Picture of LionHunter
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by Stockbroker:
quote:
Originally posted by LionHunter:

We'll see how the AI stocks handle things this year. Might even get some pics for Stockbroker Heh-Heh!


+1!
Looking forward to seeing how you handle the AI stocks!
Seriously, sincere best wishes for a successful trip!


Thanks for the good wishes. We will do our best and will bring back some pics - Michael demands them! Heh-Heh!


Mike
______________
DSC
DRSS (again)
SCI Life
NRA Life
Sables Life
Mzuri
IPHA

"To be a Marine is enough."
 
Posts: 3577 | Location: Silicon Valley | Registered: 19 November 2008Reply With Quote
one of us
Picture of michael458
posted Hide Post
quote:
Michael,
Fascinating and much appreciated explanation of POI and working to match different loads. You have more hands on experience, with success in the end, than many of us may ever try.
So my question: which of the many variables do you try to mess with first when trying to pull POI together?


Stockbroker....

Variables are many, factors involved in working bullets to the same POI are many..... velocity, weight, length of bullet, bearing surface, material (Copper, lead core, brass) powder, and so forth......

Basics start with Your Objectives and mission in which you are to embark upon....... Top Priority of your mission, and your primary bullet choice, this you decide, and you sight in this load/bullet for your primary mission. Secondary mission at hand, or possible scenario that you might run into within the area that you are hunting, and the bullet you might need to accomplish this secondary scenario...........

Most of these Raptors and Solids can run multiple missions.... For instance, 450NE is taking his 458 B&M for Moose in a month or two, primary bullet is 250 Socom. He is sighted 1.5 high at 100, dead on at 200..... Using some sort of Leupold scope it has dots below the cross hair, he raises to the first dot and this puts him dead on at 300 yards, in which he is shooting 2 inch 3 shot groups at 300 yards with this bullet. This bullet would also handle readily big bear, should he get in trouble, so there is no reason to have another bullet....... With the exception of a good solid that would match up POI....

In most all cases, a heavy solid, like the 450#13 Solid in .458 should not match up with a much faster, lighter, completely different 250 gr bullet. In some rifles they do, two of mine I know of, and Lionhunters SIL..... In reality, they should not match up, but they do in these rifles.....

For 450NE if I were looking at a solid to match up, for shooting through heavy brush on a moose or something, then I would look at the 325 #13 Solid, and most likely bearing surface, length, weight and closer velocity to the 250s, then it would most likely be able to find a good POI with the 250s... Some adjustment might be needed to bring it closer.......

Velocity is one of the first and easiest ways to bring POI of two bullets closer, most of the time... Lighter big bore bullets tend to go higher as velocity increases....... Heavier big bore bullets tend to go lower when velocity increases..... In LionHunters rifle, I actually decreased the velocity of the 450#13 Solid from 2280 to 2220 and raised the POI by 3/4 inch. However, his rifle did not care much for that, and groups were not quite as good as the faster load. One of the very first things I did with Lionhunters rifle, and the 250 was to REDUCE velocity of this bullet from 2900 fps to 2700 fps to bring POI down, and it did bring it down, from 8 inches high to 6 inches high, but it was in no way close enough to continue work in that direction....... I changed powders as well, hoping for a move back to the left, but this did not help...... I could not get a move to the left until going to the 370 Lever Raptor.......and lowering that velocity to 2400-2450 fps.......

Working with POI can be somewhat frustrating at times, depending on what you are trying to do... Sometimes, no matter what you do, if you stretch the parameters of your bullets too far apart it can't be done, so one might have to compromise some, as long as you can still accomplish the main mission. You might have to give up some velocity, or some range, but a solution can always be found...... Just have to dig deep enough to find it sometimes......... Other times, it falls into place easy with some rifles.... I have one 18 inch 416 B&M that shoots the 225, 300ESP, 325/350 combo all within 2 inches total at 50 yards! Any time I wanted to mess with POI of any of these, I could bring all of them to within easy POI to work with any of them with just some tweaking of each to get them to fall into place... Another 416 B&M I have will not come close to doing this, but would have two pick two to work with....

Now, POI with the Safari Raptors/Solids is EASY because of the bullet design.... The Raptor is the exact same bullet as the Solid, just a HP and lighter weight. But Length and Bearing surface in these bullets TRUMPS weight..... Same load with these puts them in the same hole at 50 yards...... But weight equals pressures, so one can bump a grain or two of powder in the Raptor and bump velocity. This causes the Raptor to high higher, about an inch on average at 50 yards, above the Solid, and 99% of the time exact same windage, so no right/left issues at all........... POI IS VERY EASY WITH THESE, a No Brainer and little or no adjustment needed.........

And, sometimes one just needs a little Magic and lots of good luck to get things to work together too....... HEH.....



Michael


http://www.b-mriflesandcartridges.com/default.html

The New Word is "Non-Conventional", add "Conventional" to the Endangered Species List!
Live Outside The Box of "Conventional Wisdom"

I do Not Own Any Part of Any Bullet Company, I am not in the Employ Of Any Bullet Company. I do not represent, own stock, nor do I receive any proceeds, or monies from ANY BULLET COMPANY. I am not in the bullet business, and have no Bullets to sell to you, nor anyone else.
 
Posts: 8426 | Location: South Carolina | Registered: 23 June 2008Reply With Quote
one of us
posted Hide Post
Michael,
Good points, and thanks for sharing. For my simplistic processing then, you'd change velocity first, exhausting that avenue before switching powders...Right?

Is there a point at which seating depth and related pressure changes induce any POI change with the Raptor style?
 
Posts: 223 | Registered: 30 March 2011Reply With Quote
one of us
Picture of michael458
posted Hide Post
StockBroker....
Sorry, somehow I missed the post........ Yes, velocity changes first, depending on how far apart they are......... Seating depth and direct related pressure changes have not made a big enough difference to matter with POI....... Normally if your bullets are 2 inches are so apart, velocity change will solve it..... Further apart, the next easy step is a change in one of the bullets, depending on what your primary bullet is.....

M


http://www.b-mriflesandcartridges.com/default.html

The New Word is "Non-Conventional", add "Conventional" to the Endangered Species List!
Live Outside The Box of "Conventional Wisdom"

I do Not Own Any Part of Any Bullet Company, I am not in the Employ Of Any Bullet Company. I do not represent, own stock, nor do I receive any proceeds, or monies from ANY BULLET COMPANY. I am not in the bullet business, and have no Bullets to sell to you, nor anyone else.
 
Posts: 8426 | Location: South Carolina | Registered: 23 June 2008Reply With Quote
one of us
Picture of michael458
posted Hide Post
450NE is still playing with his 458 B&M and the 250 Socoms at long range......... Reported the other day consistent 2 inch groups and some better, at 300 yards............

Yesterday, 450NE was busting Water Jugs at 300 yards......... The 250 Socom gave excellent results and does in fact shear at this range.......... In the photos below, you can see where one of the blades exited the water jug, and on top of that he was telling me yesterday he had the jugs sitting on some sort of tin type material, and one of the blades sliced through this TIN..... shocker





http://www.b-mriflesandcartridges.com/default.html

The New Word is "Non-Conventional", add "Conventional" to the Endangered Species List!
Live Outside The Box of "Conventional Wisdom"

I do Not Own Any Part of Any Bullet Company, I am not in the Employ Of Any Bullet Company. I do not represent, own stock, nor do I receive any proceeds, or monies from ANY BULLET COMPANY. I am not in the bullet business, and have no Bullets to sell to you, nor anyone else.
 
Posts: 8426 | Location: South Carolina | Registered: 23 June 2008Reply With Quote
one of us
posted Hide Post
Got my 50B&M arriving next week. Via Daryl in Australia its been a while looking forward to loading for it.
 
Posts: 32 | Location: Australia | Registered: 28 June 2013Reply With Quote
one of us
Picture of michael458
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by shauno50:
Got my 50B&M arriving next week. Via Daryl in Australia its been a while looking forward to loading for it.


Very Excellent Shauno.... Do keep us posted.......

Michael


http://www.b-mriflesandcartridges.com/default.html

The New Word is "Non-Conventional", add "Conventional" to the Endangered Species List!
Live Outside The Box of "Conventional Wisdom"

I do Not Own Any Part of Any Bullet Company, I am not in the Employ Of Any Bullet Company. I do not represent, own stock, nor do I receive any proceeds, or monies from ANY BULLET COMPANY. I am not in the bullet business, and have no Bullets to sell to you, nor anyone else.
 
Posts: 8426 | Location: South Carolina | Registered: 23 June 2008Reply With Quote
one of us
Picture of capoward
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by shauno50:
Got my 50B&M arriving next week. Via Daryl in Australia its been a while looking forward to loading for it.
Congrats on your new rifle, you'll love the cartridge/rifle combo!

I don't know how available they are in Australia, or what their price point would be, but stateside the Hornady 500gr .500 XTP bullet (500 S&W handgun design) - run into a pointing die and then loaded anywhere from 1900fps-2150fps makes a great practice bullet out to 200yds or so as well as being very deadly on large pigs. I purchase them as 'blems on sale' when they crop up.


Jim coffee
"Life's hard; it's harder if you're stupid"
John Wayne
 
Posts: 4953 | Location: Central Texas | Registered: 15 September 2007Reply With Quote
one of us
posted Hide Post
Here it is finally arrived home in Australia.

Its very well built and the action is smooth and trigger feels about perfect for me.

 
Posts: 32 | Location: Australia | Registered: 28 June 2013Reply With Quote
one of us
Picture of capoward
posted Hide Post
Congratulations, that's a good looking rifle! Is that the factory wood stock or an AI stock? Very nice figure.


Jim coffee
"Life's hard; it's harder if you're stupid"
John Wayne
 
Posts: 4953 | Location: Central Texas | Registered: 15 September 2007Reply With Quote
one of us
Picture of michael458
posted Hide Post
Shauno...

Man the rifle looks great...... I don't know how you can do any better than that...... That is a fine looking stick of wood too, I don't think I saw this stick???? Did I?

M


http://www.b-mriflesandcartridges.com/default.html

The New Word is "Non-Conventional", add "Conventional" to the Endangered Species List!
Live Outside The Box of "Conventional Wisdom"

I do Not Own Any Part of Any Bullet Company, I am not in the Employ Of Any Bullet Company. I do not represent, own stock, nor do I receive any proceeds, or monies from ANY BULLET COMPANY. I am not in the bullet business, and have no Bullets to sell to you, nor anyone else.
 
Posts: 8426 | Location: South Carolina | Registered: 23 June 2008Reply With Quote
one of us
Picture of michael458
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by capoward:
Congratulations, that's a good looking rifle! Is that the factory wood stock or an AI stock? Very nice figure.



Jim, no its an B&M AI Stock I am sure, although the tip looks slightly longer than normal, but might be the photo too...


http://www.b-mriflesandcartridges.com/default.html

The New Word is "Non-Conventional", add "Conventional" to the Endangered Species List!
Live Outside The Box of "Conventional Wisdom"

I do Not Own Any Part of Any Bullet Company, I am not in the Employ Of Any Bullet Company. I do not represent, own stock, nor do I receive any proceeds, or monies from ANY BULLET COMPANY. I am not in the bullet business, and have no Bullets to sell to you, nor anyone else.
 
Posts: 8426 | Location: South Carolina | Registered: 23 June 2008Reply With Quote
one of us
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by capoward:
Congratulations, that's a good looking rifle! Is that the factory wood stock or an AI stock? Very nice figure.



Jim, no its an B&M AI Stock I am sure, although the tip looks slightly longer than normal, but might be the photo too...[/QUOTE]

To clear that up, that's a stock the boss at AI built to showoff the .458 B&M we keep on hand. Somehow he was talked out of it and it now lives ready to work hard "Over There"...looks great BTW!
 
Posts: 223 | Registered: 30 March 2011Reply With Quote
one of us
posted Hide Post
The local shop has a Henry rifle (new mfg) in 30-30 that somehow wound up with exhibition wood on it. I was looking for an excuse to buy it. I think the 100gr 30-30 Raptor just gave me a reason :-)
 
Posts: 18653 | Location: Very NW NJ up in the Mountains | Registered: 14 June 2009Reply With Quote
one of us
Picture of capoward
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by Stockbroker:
quote:
quote:
Originally posted by capoward:
Congratulations, that's a good looking rifle! Is that the factory wood stock or an AI stock? Very nice figure.



Jim, no its an B&M AI Stock I am sure, although the tip looks slightly longer than normal, but might be the photo too...


To clear that up, that's a stock the boss at AI built to showoff the .458 B&M we keep on hand. Somehow he was talked out of it and it now lives ready to work hard "Over There"...looks great BTW!
Nice! It does need a shorter forend with the short barrel to balance visually. But very nice none the less.


Jim coffee
"Life's hard; it's harder if you're stupid"
John Wayne
 
Posts: 4953 | Location: Central Texas | Registered: 15 September 2007Reply With Quote
one of us
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by Stockbroker:
quote:
Originally posted by capoward:
Congratulations, that's a good looking rifle! Is that the factory wood stock or an AI stock? Very nice figure.



Jim, no its an B&M AI Stock I am sure, although the tip looks slightly longer than normal, but might be the photo too...


To clear that up, that's a stock the boss at AI built to showoff the .458 B&M we keep on hand. Somehow he was talked out of it and it now lives ready to work hard "Over There"...looks great BTW![/QUOTE]



Yea its the Turkish Walnut AI stock. It looks like it might have been on a 20inch barrel rifle so Ill have to modify it as its a bit long for my 18inch maybe an inch or so needs to come off. Im in no hurry ill just leave the synthetic stock on it for hunting and work how best to mod the wood its difficult though as I dont want to muck up the checkering or loose the African Blackwood forend. Have to have a think about this
 
Posts: 32 | Location: Australia | Registered: 28 June 2013Reply With Quote
one of us
posted Hide Post
Was having another look it might be ok at that length just need some mods still though if its originally for the 458 barrel havnt tried the fit yet
 
Posts: 32 | Location: Australia | Registered: 28 June 2013Reply With Quote
one of us
Picture of michael458
posted Hide Post
Shauno50

I don't think I would mess with that stick of wood of yours.... Its a nice piece..... I might be mistaken, But I Wes left that stick here one time for me to look at and photograph.... regardless it is mighty fine..... Keep us posted on things over there..........

quote:
Was having another look it might be ok at that length just need some mods still though if its originally for the 458 barrel havnt tried the fit yet


Shauno... It will fit barrel channel like a glove....... The 416-458-50 B&M are all the same barrel contour....... So any stock made for 458 will fit the other two.......

9.3/375 are the same barrel contour..... But not the same as the larger B&Ms....

All the Super Shorts are the same barrel contour.......



quote:
The local shop has a Henry rifle (new mfg) in 30-30 that somehow wound up with exhibition wood on it. I was looking for an excuse to buy it. I think the 100gr 30-30 Raptor just gave me a reason :-)


Run hard as you can and get it... HEH...... Yesterday I finished up some pressures and load data in that little 16 inch 30/30 of mine, one of several...... Basic jest of the matter this little gun will handle far more pressures than its designed to do and show no effects at all.... If you guys recall, I ran that 100 Raptor to 3000 fps in this gun, and zero issues.... I began my test work last week with 2800 fps and that ran 53000 PSI, no effects or issues, BUT BUT BUT, this is WAY OVER PRESSURE for a M94....... What long term effects would be I just don't know, but I settled things down to run 45000 PSI... At 45000 we can run the gun at 2600 fps with the 100.

I have been running the 130 Raptors too, and I am not sure that the 130 ESP might be the best choice for the old 30/30..... In 16 inches I can achieve 2300 fps with both H-4198 and AA 2520 with excellent results, 45000 PSI..... I like the 130 as a Solid, it has a nice long nose projection and works slick as can be. The 100 is a stubby little thing, very little nose projection. The 130 looks pretty serious as a solid... I do like Solids you know.... Just as a fluke yesterday, I dragged out a 20 inch gun and thought to try the H-4198 and 130 to see what the deal was..... 2500 fps as a Raptor HP in the 20 inch gun!!!!!!! I suppose that is about right, a gain of 50 fps per inch..... Believe me, 2500 fps with this bullet in a 30/30 turns the old cartridge into another animal altogether..... This rifle has never been fired and is one of the older commemorative rifles, and at 45000 it was sticky, but not sure if there might have been something in the chamber or not... ????? I have several other 30/30s and I am going to try these 45000 PSI loads in them to see what they do as well, before I can come to an exact determination.... Like in the past, I have not found all Lever Guns to be equal in what they will handle and not handle..... So before I present you with something, I need to try several guns first to see.......... I might find some at 45000, some at 42000.... Factory ammo is all hovering around 40000 PSI FYI.....

ACCURATE...... Oh my, I am surprised at how accurate these are........ And, Seasons and I were talking about twist rates and the 130s, not an issue, they are very stable, but I am sure if a tip was added for a first shot out of one it would not be stable.....

Good Fun with these little 30/30s......

M


http://www.b-mriflesandcartridges.com/default.html

The New Word is "Non-Conventional", add "Conventional" to the Endangered Species List!
Live Outside The Box of "Conventional Wisdom"

I do Not Own Any Part of Any Bullet Company, I am not in the Employ Of Any Bullet Company. I do not represent, own stock, nor do I receive any proceeds, or monies from ANY BULLET COMPANY. I am not in the bullet business, and have no Bullets to sell to you, nor anyone else.
 
Posts: 8426 | Location: South Carolina | Registered: 23 June 2008Reply With Quote
one of us
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by michael458:
Shauno50

I don't think I would mess with that stick of wood of yours.... Its a nice piece..... I might be mistaken, But I Wes left that stick here one time for me to look at and photograph.... regardless it is mighty fine..... Keep us posted on things over there..........

M


Michael yes it is the same stock as the pictures of the Turkish on your website.

Its awesome wood guys were checking it out at the gun shop when I picked it up and pretty impressed with it.
 
Posts: 32 | Location: Australia | Registered: 28 June 2013Reply With Quote
one of us
Picture of michael458
posted Hide Post
Yes, Shauno, I thought so, that is an incredible stick of wood.... Not only is it nice, but it has that all important full chassis to keep it from busting too.... Best of all worlds, Accurate Innovations........ Well done....
M


http://www.b-mriflesandcartridges.com/default.html

The New Word is "Non-Conventional", add "Conventional" to the Endangered Species List!
Live Outside The Box of "Conventional Wisdom"

I do Not Own Any Part of Any Bullet Company, I am not in the Employ Of Any Bullet Company. I do not represent, own stock, nor do I receive any proceeds, or monies from ANY BULLET COMPANY. I am not in the bullet business, and have no Bullets to sell to you, nor anyone else.
 
Posts: 8426 | Location: South Carolina | Registered: 23 June 2008Reply With Quote
one of us
Picture of michael458
posted Hide Post
I am taking a HUGE RISK HERE with this post........ I am quite certain I will be accused of all sorts of things after this........ What the hell.......

I need to have a BULLET SALE.............

I am way overstocked with a few items, and I need to make some ROOM for some new bullets that are coming in......

What I have and need to move to make some room........

.474 caliber

These are the Old Style North Fork Solids, old Nose Profile, 68% meplat, while these were designed for the 475 B&M and the 475 B&M Super Short, they should do well in most any .474 caliber rifle.....

375 gr and 425 gr.........

How about a $1 each?

.500 caliber... Lots of .500 caliber B&Ms out there.... North Fork Solids

Some Old Style Nose Profiles 68% Meplat...... both 375 and 450 gr......

Some New Nose Profile 68% Meplats... Both 375 and 450 gr.......

Same deal $1 each...... Gotta go, gotta make room.............

If you B&M guys are interested drop me a note and tell me how many you want, will get them on the way to
you...

I put this here instead of classified because of mostly being designed for the B&Ms....?????

Michael


http://www.b-mriflesandcartridges.com/default.html

The New Word is "Non-Conventional", add "Conventional" to the Endangered Species List!
Live Outside The Box of "Conventional Wisdom"

I do Not Own Any Part of Any Bullet Company, I am not in the Employ Of Any Bullet Company. I do not represent, own stock, nor do I receive any proceeds, or monies from ANY BULLET COMPANY. I am not in the bullet business, and have no Bullets to sell to you, nor anyone else.
 
Posts: 8426 | Location: South Carolina | Registered: 23 June 2008Reply With Quote
one of us
Picture of michael458
posted Hide Post
More news, just heard from Brian at SSK, and we now have 50 B&M Alaskan Dies on hand...

About time................

For those that have been waiting, either Brian or myself will be getting these out to you ASAP..

FYI...
M


http://www.b-mriflesandcartridges.com/default.html

The New Word is "Non-Conventional", add "Conventional" to the Endangered Species List!
Live Outside The Box of "Conventional Wisdom"

I do Not Own Any Part of Any Bullet Company, I am not in the Employ Of Any Bullet Company. I do not represent, own stock, nor do I receive any proceeds, or monies from ANY BULLET COMPANY. I am not in the bullet business, and have no Bullets to sell to you, nor anyone else.
 
Posts: 8426 | Location: South Carolina | Registered: 23 June 2008Reply With Quote
  Powered by Social Strata Page 1 ... 65 66 67 68 69  
 

Accuratereloading.com    The Accurate Reloading Forums    THE ACCURATE RELOADING.COM FORUMS  Hop To Forum Categories  Rifles  Hop To Forums  Big Bores    416-458-50 SS-50 B&M Series Cartridges/Rifles

Copyright December 1997-2021 Accuratereloading.com


Visit our on-line store for AR Memorabilia