Has anyone got info on using 100% TrailBoss in the 585 HE?
Or if you have info on any very light recoiling loads for this
cartridge comparatively speaking of course. I'd Like to have a
deer load for 100 yards or less. Really I plan to fire at deer
only 50 yards out at the most.

I have a light load for the 600 OK that will be similar to one you’d use in the 585. I use 60 grains of Accurate 5744 with a 900 grain soft or banded solid for a velocity of 1,200 FPS +/-
I don’t use any filler and I do use a magnum primer. You can shoot this load without a muzzle brake no problem.
It’s a starting point for you.
Oh, it burns clean also.

Thanks much Bitterroot!

Never tried that. But:

Full size: http://umsle.peklo.biz/img/1539943698.jpg

Not sure about 5744 with 42.5 % filling rate:

Full size: http://umsle.peklo.biz/img/1539943748.jpg

Jiri

Hello Jiri,

I'm studying the graphs and other data you provided, thank you.
Just to confirm, the Accurate powder load presented by Bitterroot
shows that it would fill 42.5% of the available space within the
brass with a bullet seated. That's 60 grains of powder. The Trail
Boss load of just 49 grains of powder would fill 98.6% of the
available space within the brass with a bullet seated.

Trailboss is "fluffy", so that's why it fills the case. It burns very dirty also.

The 5744 works with low filling percentages. I've used this load for years and never had a misfire or any other problems. It burns clean.

Bitterroot, Thank you again. I'm going to try
some 5744 for sure. I appreciate you enlightening
me about your success with it!

D R Hunter:

Exactly. 60 gr of 5744 is 42.5 % filling, 49 gr of Trail Boss, available space almost full.

Bitterroot:

Will that low pressure seal the case in the chamber?

So with 5744, that filling under 50 %, no problems so far? Did you try standard primers vs magnum primers for that loads?

Thank you for answers
Jiri

The formula from a Western Powders ballistician for reduced loads is

1) Fill the case to the base of the bullet with AA 5744 and weigh the charge.
2) Multiply the charge weight by .4 to get a 40% load. So 100gr. x .4 = 40gr.
3) Tinker as necessary to find an accurate load.

I got this straight from the horse's mouth.

150 grains +/- of 5744 fills the 600 OK case to bottom of seated bullet, depending on bullet. So, 150 x .40=60. Amazing!

Good stuff friends! This is why people with
common interests get together on "the web".

Info for European members:

Years ago, Accurate powders was (also) made here in Czech Republic by Explosia company. Now, the powders are available under "Lovex" name here.


5744 is called here Lovex D60
https://explosia.cz/app/upload...eloading_2017_en.pdf

Jiri

My guys here use much, much lighter bullets for deer, bear,

the hardened lead .583-.585" Minie bullets, like 440 to 540 gr,

much cheaper, 30-60 cents each, and use .60% fill load of 5744,

or 90% fill load RE17 or similar speed powder, lighter bullet and more speed,

shoots flatter, way much less recoil than even 900gr going slow.,Ed


Just buy or cast hard alloy Minies.

GrampaHubel:

Good to see you here ;-)

Jiri


BTW There are Woodleigh bullets, 650 gr, designed for black powder express and 1700-2000 fps range. Cheaper than regular one.

85 grains of 5744 (or Lovex D60) will yield ~2000 fps. Nice "medium" load I think.

Jiri

BTW where to get 900gr jacketed bullets?

This is great discussion as DR Hunter says.
Thanks to Jiri for the good info.

And, hello Ed (grampaHubel. Good to see your post. We have not talked for a long time.
I used our .577NE Handi Rifle with a 700 grain Peregrine Bush Master bullet at 1,700fps, this fall on buffalo. Shattered the buffalo's shoulder and she fell flat on her chin.
Video and story is on the way.
I love the rifle we built. As I mentioned elsewhere on AR, I added a 50-110 switch barrel. Three, one shot kills on buffalo with it using CEB Raptors. Brian

Hi GrampaHubel, Thank you for joining in and sharing the loading data.
Again, I appreciate ALL the feedback from the membership.

quote:

Originally posted by Brian Canada:

I used our .577NE Handi Rifle with a 700 grain Peregrine Bush Master bullet at 1,700fps, this fall on buffalo. Shattered the buffalo's shoulder and she fell flat on her chin.

Brian

Brian: I ordered 200 of that bullets. Did you ordered regular one ".582" or (as me) did you order custom made ".585"?

I would like to see your video a photos.

Jiri

That is a very good question. The first box I got was .582. They were too small a diameter and did not quite engrave in the lands in my McGowan Barrel.
Peregrine was great and they immediately sent me another batch at .584 that were perfect. No charge for shipping. Both batches were 700 grain. I still have the 100 bullets of .582 If you can use them I will ship them to you.(you pay for shipping) If you want to pay something more for them you can send it to Peregrine. They deserve it.

You might want to slug your barrel asap to make sure that .582 will work.
I think that it might be smaller than the industry standard, but I am just guessing.

Also, They recommended that 2000 fps was minimum muzzle velocity for this bullet, to make it really work/expand. They are right but I only made it up to 1700fps. It still expanded to about .650 with is just what I want for a semi expanding solid ( I will load it about 200 fps faster next time to get it to expand a bit more.)

The penetration and retained weight was excellent. Retained weight relates to good penetration, of course.) As I say, both PH's, who have seen a lot of buffalo killed, were really impressed. I asked them if they had ever seen anything like that before and they both said, "No!" Johan slid a stick easily down the full length of the wound channel. As you know, a wound channel that does not collapse too much is a good thing. Brian PS. Please slug your barrel quick before they make your bullets.

I am working on the video and story with photos. I will keep you posted.

"900 grain bullets"! yikes!

Brian:

What I know in Europe, barrels are made .582" (Lothar Walther for example). Maybe that old .577 nitro express rifles made in Europe are also .582". I don't know that. It is maybe the reason some "577" bullets are made ".582", as Peregrine or Barnes.

My rifle is made using Pac-Nor barrel, which is .577/.585 (the same as McGowen).

So I send an email to Peregrine, if they can make bullets for my rifle (which is .585"). They said "yes, of course", told me also that .582" will not work well so I ordered 200 "custom" VRG3's (already at home). I ordered also bullets for .500 S&W revolver.

Thank you for offer, but I have no use for .582" bullets.

It is nice to hear that VRG3 works so well on game. Hope I will try on big game too ;-)

Have a nice day,
Jiri

Jiri, Thanks for the info. I read your above email wrong. I thought that you ordered .582 bullets. My mistake. Please keep us posted. Brian

Jiri, Perfect! That worked perfectly in my McGowan barrel.
They sure are an awesome bullet. At 2000+ fps it be like a lightening strike.
Brian

Brian:

Where are pictures and video? ;-)
Just want to see that hunt.

Cheers,
Jiri

Thanks Jiri, I don't post photos on AR. But thanks for your interest. As I say, I am working on a video and two stories from the hunt for a South African publication, The African Hunting Gazette. When the video is on You Tube I will post the news. Same with the story. Brian

Hi Jiri, I just thought of something.
If you want to PM me your email address I am happy to send you some photos. I don't know how to post photos on the site and I am too stubborn to learn. (Chuckle) During the hunt we were preoccupied with the video, so we only got a few photos. Cheers, Brian

Hi Brian,

don't hurry. I am just eager :-)

Jiri

Measured loads yesterday with Labradar:

80 gr 5744, Woodleigh 650 BPE softpoint, 1900 fps
155 gr RL17, Woodleigh 750 softpoint, 2400 fps

I have a 26" Pacnor barrel.

5744 load easy to shoot, really much lower recoil

BTW Sorry, server I put images on is down, so you see fish :-(

Compare the recoils:

Friend shooting 5744 load
Friend shooting RL17 load

Jiri

Ed Hubel here, That RE17 amount is a moderate load, he

needs 3 lbs more on the gun, and fill case full with

180 gr of Re17, or could try a top load of 180gr

H335, for 2800.. Ed

180 for 750 gr bullet? Isn't that too much? Was thinking about 170 or so.

Jiri

Any good bolt action would handle it but that

gun needs 3 lbs if you was going that High.

We never did a 585 that light. Vestals got 750 gr almost

2800 with a really short barrel and that much of the

faster H335 ball powder. A long barrel they'd of

been way over 2900.Ed

Ed,

I will keep rifle reasonably light. Will use it for driven wild boar hunting etc. next to hunters with their 7x57 or so. Will be fun ;-)

Will not go over 170 gr RL17 for 750 gr I think.

Jiri

just traded into a .585 HE this week.. so happy to find this thread!

mdwest

What gun, action etc.?

1917 Enfield Action. The previous owner has told me that originally got the rifle directly from @Grandpasez..

I havent put my hands on it yet. The rifle was shipped to my gunsmith to have the barrel cut and crowned. It currently sports a 30" bbl. I'm having it cut to 24" and I'm having a set of sights sweat onto it... After that it should be ready for me to have a little shoulder slamming fun with it

The "worst" is not the recoil, but the torque. I have 1 in 18" twist. I think you will have 1 in 24", so maybe it will not be so hard.

But at all, it is all about technique and concentration, not (much) about strength.

I get used to hard kickers when I bought 500 S&W revolver. I can shot it one handed now.

I hope you will enjoy it as I do.

Jiri

BTW prepare to the scenario that you will get only about 40 rounds from one pound of gunpowder ;-)