458 win mag ; AA 2230 ; 500 gr Hornady

14 December 2009, 01:14

I went to the range today to check some 458 mag loads to determine if I could best the factory loads checked a few weeks ago.
These were the first hand loads I have worked up for my 458 Browning Safari grade. I just was curious about what appears to be the std 458 mag load.
The temp was 60-65 F. No wind. Oehler 35 Chronograph; All loads had a slight crimp.

1) Load 1
Rem Brass; Fed 215; 500 gr Hornady interlock; 73 gr of AA 2230 (4 shots)
Hi 2178
LO 2138
Avg 2160

2) Load 2 ( same as 1 except 74 gr of AA2230)
HI 2197
LO 2177
AVG 2189

Observations; Both these loads kicked quite a bit harder than any of the factory fodder I tried a few weeks back including the Hornady Heavy mag load that averaged 2080 FPS.

I cannot see a 3"dot at 100 yards anymore shooting open sights!

No extraction issues with either of these loads at the ambient temp recorded.

The first three shots at 74 gr shot 2190, 2192 and 2197. Great consistancy. The 4th came in at 2177.

The barrel never got remotely warm. If I was shooting my 470 Heym the barrel would have been to hot to handle!

Now I may try some 450 gr swifts at 75 gr of 2230 and see if I can get 2300 FPS.

No problem getting 2150 FPS with these loads in this rifle. I would suspect I would stay with the 73 gr in light of a tad warmer climate in Africa in hunting season.

EZ

14 December 2009, 01:21

Big Bore Boar Hunter

What was your bbl length? Sounds like 24".

John

14 December 2009, 01:24

eezridr

Correct;24"

14 December 2009, 02:29

IanD

Have you tried H335 yet? Would be interested in the results. Nice report!

14 December 2009, 02:32

dirklawyer

quote:
Originally posted by eezridr:
I would suspect I would stay with the 73 gr in light of a tad warmer climate in Africa in hunting season. EZ

Ditto's

Your very close to maximum loads you might want to drop it to 72 grains when the weather is in the 90's.

14 December 2009, 03:45

eezridr

I am glad I did not start out at a max load according to the 7th edition of the hornady manual that listed a max loading of 78.3 gr of 2230 to achieve the 2200 FPS. And they show a load of 76.9 grains to get 2150 fps.
I was able to achieve these velocities with 4 grains less each.
The recoil was stiff in my light rifle at 73 & 74 grains.
Hornady did use Winchester brass and I Remington. I also crimped my loads; not sure about Hornady and that raises pressure a bit.

14 December 2009, 06:38

ScottS

I wonder what that means with regard to peak pressures.

quote:
I was able to achieve these velocities with 4 grains less each.

I have always considered it strange Hornady did not include pressures with their load data. kinda figured they use a simulation program of some kind, as their data tends to be flaky far too often.

14 December 2009, 07:15

JPK

Ez,

I have trided AA 2230 in hot and cold and found it to be pretty tempeature insensative.

I load 72.5gr for my 500gr elephant loads and they are fine in 115* plus heat (Norma cases, Fed 215 primers, 2145fps at the muzzles, 26 1/4" barrels.)

In the US I tested the loads at about 50* and at about 100* and could see no appreciable difference in Chrono readings, in fact, I couldn't see any change in the hot vs cold velocities. If there was any, it was lost in normal variation between shots.

JPK

14 December 2009, 10:02

jetdrvr

The last PH I hunted with loads 74 grs. of 2230 behind a 500 A Frame and a 500 Hornady solid and has been doing it for years. He swears by it. As soon as I can find some 2230, I'm going to load some up.

14 December 2009, 10:52

gumboot458

AA 2230 works Super Great with 400 and 350 gr bullets also in the 458 Win Mag ....It gives velocities above about any other powder I have tried .. I prefer 4198 with the 300 grain bullets ....

15 December 2009, 23:48

eezridr

jetdrvr,

Just curious as to what country you were hunting with that PH and if there were high temp extremes when this load of 74 gr of AA 2230 was being used by the PH?

EZ

18 December 2009, 10:55

jetdrvr

quote:
Originally posted by eezridr:
jetdrvr,

Just curious as to what country you were hunting with that PH and if there were high temp extremes when this load of 74 gr of AA 2230 was being used by the PH?

EZ

We were hunting in Maasailand. Don't sweat the temps. He has hunted Botswana, Zambia, the Selous in 110 F, and Maasailand at 65 F. He just loads them up and presses on.

18 December 2009, 16:55

VFR1

Good information. I have 4lbs of 2230 here that I got for a friend to load 223. I have been using H335 in my .458 and am looking forward to trying the 2230.

I also have a 10.75x68 using 3031 and 335. What is the general consus here about using 2230 in the 10.75? Thanks, Bob

20 December 2009, 08:43

Indy

quote:
Originally posted by eezridr:
I am glad I did not start out at a max load according to the 7th edition of the hornady manual that listed a max loading of 78.3 gr of 2230 to achieve the 2200 FPS. And they show a load of 76.9 grains to get 2150 fps.
I was able to achieve these velocities with 4 grains less each.
The recoil was stiff in my light rifle at 73 & 74 grains.
Hornady did use Winchester brass and I Remington. I also crimped my loads; not sure about Hornady and that raises pressure a bit.

DON'T TRUST HORNADY LOADING DATA. I loaded 78 grains of AA2230 with 500 grain bullets, albeit Barnes banded solids. The first (and only) shot chronographed 2376 fps, the bolt was very hard to geet open, and there was a nice shiny mark on the end of the case!

This load is over maximum.

20 December 2009, 08:54

shootaway

quote:
Originally posted by jetdrvr:
The last PH I hunted with loads 74 grs. of 2230 behind a 500 A Frame and a 500 Hornady solid and has been doing it for years. He swears by it. As soon as I can find some 2230, I'm going to load some up.

This is the load I've settled on and that I've been using in my 458wm for some time.I use it with moly coated bullets most of the time.No pressure signs.If I wasn't using moly,I would cut it down a grain or two.It is as accurate as anything.I've been trying for awhile to get some 2520 for my lott,but everyone is out of stock.

20 December 2009, 09:53

Big Bore Boar Hunter

quote:
Originally posted by Indy:

DON'T TRUST HORNADY LOADING DATA. I loaded 78 grains of AA2230 with 500 grain bullets, albeit Barnes banded solids. The first (and only) shot chronographed 2376 fps, the bolt was very hard to geet open, and there was a nice shiny mark on the end of the case!

This load is over maximum.

Substituting bullets with a load is a big no-no. Barne's bullets of yore tend to be stickier than conventional bullet design and can overpressure pretty easily. They also tend to be longer for weight than conventionals as well. Chock that one up to luck and good fortune.

John

20 December 2009, 13:11

jetdrvr

quote:
Originally posted by Indy:
quote:
Originally posted by eezridr:
I am glad I did not start out at a max load according to the 7th edition of the hornady manual that listed a max loading of 78.3 gr of 2230 to achieve the 2200 FPS. And they show a load of 76.9 grains to get 2150 fps.
I was able to achieve these velocities with 4 grains less each.
The recoil was stiff in my light rifle at 73 & 74 grains.
Hornady did use Winchester brass and I Remington. I also crimped my loads; not sure about Hornady and that raises pressure a bit.

DON'T TRUST HORNADY LOADING DATA. I loaded 78 grains of AA2230 with 500 grain bullets, albeit Barnes banded solids. The first (and only) shot chronographed 2376 fps, the bolt was very hard to geet open, and there was a nice shiny mark on the end of the case!

This load is over maximum.

I wondered about that when I saw it the other night. I wonder if it is a typo? Did you call Hornady? Accurate lists 72 grains on their website as max with a 500 Hornady RN. I know I wouldn't try 78. No way.

Additionally, the Swift book has no column for AA powders. I called Bill whatshisname to ask him about AA powders but he didn't call me back. He has always called me back before when I had a question or comment about Swift bullets. I wonder if someone just dropped the ball and he didn't get the word, or if he doesn't want to comment?

21 December 2009, 01:40

465H&H

quote:
Originally posted by eezridr:
I am glad I did not start out at a max load according to the 7th edition of the hornady manual that listed a max loading of 78.3 gr of 2230 to achieve the 2200 FPS. And they show a load of 76.9 grains to get 2150 fps.
I was able to achieve these velocities with 4 grains less each.
The recoil was stiff in my light rifle at 73 & 74 grains.
Hornady did use Winchester brass and I Remington. I also crimped my loads; not sure about Hornady and that raises pressure a bit.

Remington cases usually are heavier than Hornady or Winchester cases and have less internal capacity. Consequently, you should cut your charges about 2 grains when using Rem cases.

465H&H

21 December 2009, 06:16

.458 Only

quote:
Originally posted by eezridr:
I went to the range today to check some 458 mag loads to determine if I could best the factory loads checked a few weeks ago.
These were the first hand loads I have worked up for my 458 Browning Safari grade. I just was curious about what appears to be the std 458 mag load.
The temp was 60-65 F. No wind. Oehler 35 Chronograph; All loads had a slight crimp.

1) Load 1
Rem Brass; Fed 215; 500 gr Hornady interlock; 73 gr of AA 2230 (4 shots)
Hi 2178
LO 2138
Avg 2160

2) Load 2 ( same as 1 except 74 gr of AA2230)
HI 2190
LO 2177
AVG 2189

Observations; Both these loads kicked quite a bit harder than any of the factory fodder I tried a few weeks back including the Hornady Heavy mag load that averaged 2080 FPS.

I cannot see a 3"dot at 100 yards anymore shooting open sights!

No extraction issues with either of these loads at the ambient temp recorded.

The first three shots at 74 gr shot 2190, 2192 and 2197. Great consistancy. The 4th came in at 2177.

The barrel never got remotely warm. If I was shooting my 470 Heym the barrel would have been to hot to handle!

Now I may try some 450 gr swifts at 75 gr of 2230 and see if I can get 2300 FPS.

No problem getting 2150 FPS with these loads in this rifle. I would suspect I would stay with the 73 gr in light of a tad warmer climate in Africa in hunting season.

EZ

Were those instrumental readings or corrected to muzzle?

If instrumental, add at least 10 fps, depending on distance from the Oehler.

Bob

www.bigbores.ca

21 December 2009, 16:36

eezridr

Instrumental; 10'-12' from the muzzle (1st sky screen; the Oehler has about 4' between screens-approximately). They were not corrected to the muzzle.

EZ

22 December 2009, 01:54

jetdrvr

I just called the ballistician at Accurate, (they no longer use the designation of AA or Accurate Arms, but simply "A" or "Accurate; must have had some copyright infringement problems), and he told me the 78 figure in the Hornady manual is correct.

He said start off at 71 grains and work up. He said it all depends on barrel tightness and chamber dimensions. He said there should be no pressure problems, even at 78, if that's what it takes.

He said that once you reach a certain level of velocity, it is very possible that velocity will no longer increase and will possibly decrease with an increased load.

I also talked to Bill Hober at Swift. The guy never fails. I guess he is quite busy with the holiday season, but he always calls me back. He absolutely loves his bullets and his customers.

He highly recommends the 450 grain A Frame for accuracy and consistency. The bullet was built for Remington, who no longer loads it, because everyone wants 500 grainers, but in his experience, he says the 450 Swift equals or outperforms the 500 for accuracy and efficiency in the Win mag. He says it doesn't matter to him, as he gets the same price for either bullet.

With some 2230 handloads of the 450 built for me by dirklawyer, I shot a two round one hole group at 100 yds using iron sights an inch and a half from the bull. Can't beat that.

22 December 2009, 02:17

shootaway

"...I shot a one hole group at 100yds using iron sights." I'll have to raise the flag on you. bsflag

22 December 2009, 02:19

jetdrvr

quote:
Originally posted by shootaway:
"...I shot a one hole group at 100yds using iron sights." I'll have to raise the flag on you.

Just because you cant hit a bull in the ass with a bass fiddle doesn't mean the rest of us can't.

Rebarrel that POS Lott you're always bragging about with a cut-rifled barrel from Jerry Pedersen and your groups might improve. OTOH, it's the guy operating the rifle that makes the most difference...

22 December 2009, 03:03

shootaway

Your shot is that single hole on the top right.Those two .308 cal holes were caused by someone else shooting at your target.

22 December 2009, 03:30

ledvm

I shot some 1 hole 3 shot groups with my.458 WM. It is an original (except bedded) 1957 model 70. It does have a 1.25 X 4 Euro Leupold on it though.

It was with 450 gr NF FP solids in front of 72 gr of A2230 going ~2250 fps. Did it 2-3 times. The NF softs will only shoot an inch once and 1.5" most of the time with same charge.

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No state commands such fierce pride and loyalty. Lesser mortals are pitied for their misfortune in not being born in Texas.— Queen Elizabeth II on her visit to Texas in May, 1991.

22 December 2009, 03:33

jetdrvr

Don't you mean the hole on theleft?

That is a .458 405 grain Remington bullet loaded with 67 grains of IMR 4064 at 1900 fps. The two different bullet and charge weights obviously don't shoot to the same POI.

No 308 ever made ahole like the one in question...

I was raised shooting iron sights. I didn't buy my first scope until I was well into my 30's. Never saw a need for one. With my .458, I will take a 150 yard shot using irons with the 450 A Frame load. 75 grains of A 2230 works perfectly and is enough for any game up to buffalo. It is a great bullet fired from a great barrel.

I will eventually scope the rifle with a Leupy 1.5-5x20 with a German #4. Same scope I have on my .375. That will make it a 250 yard rifle. That, according to Bill Hober this afternoon. And I agree.

22 December 2009, 03:55

eezridr

jetdrvr,

I am envious. I cannot even see a 3" dot any longer at 100 yards. I think 50 yards would be my max shooting at dots. My eyes turn 53 in January!
I think I am going to require a 1.5 X 20 leu on my 458 as well along with perhaps a mercury reducer and a pachymer decelarator.
I am going order some 450 swifts and try that 75 gr. load of 2230.
Do you have a velocity on that load?

EZ

22 December 2009, 08:20

jetdrvr

quote:
Originally posted by eezridr:
jetdrvr,

I am envious. I cannot even see a 3" dot any longer at 100 yards. I think 50 yards would be my max shooting at dots. My eyes turn 53 in January!
I think I am going to require a 1.5 X 20 leu on my 458 as well along with perhaps a mercury reducer and a pachymer decelarator.
I am going order some 450 swifts and try that 75 gr. load of 2230.
Do you have a velocity on that load?

EZ

Yeah. dirklawyer sold me the rifle and sent me a bunch of his handloads, including four of those 450 Swifts. He says he clocked them at 2111 out of the 22" barrel. The accuracy blew me away. I couldn't believe it looking through a 40x spotting scope, but when I retrieved the target, there it was. I wish I had not shot the other two rounds already so I could have shot a four shot group. That was my first attempt with the rifle at 100.

I am going to order 8 lbs of 2230 after I finish paying for Christmas. Dirk sold me 48 450's along with a batch of other stuff. I can't wait to load them up.

BTW, I'm 67 and blind in my right eye. Had to learn to shoot shoulder weapons left handed many, many years ago. The left eye is holding up pretty good, but I pefer larger type in my emails.

22 December 2009, 08:30

jetdrvr

quote:
Originally posted by ledvm:
I shot some 1 hole 3 shot groups with my.458 WM. It is an original (except bedded) 1957 model 70. It does have a 1.25 X 4 Euro Leupold on it though.

It was with 450 gr NF FP solids in front of 72 gr of A2230 going ~2250 fps. Did it 2-3 times. The NF softs will only shoot an inch once and 1.5" most of the time with same charge.

I'd like to try the North forks, but since I have 98 Hornady solids, multiple lifetime supplies, I probably won't. Dirk gets the credit for this load. I'm going to try to duplicate it.

22 December 2009, 08:33

.458 Only

quote:
Originally posted by eezridr:
Instrumental; 10'-12' from the muzzle (1st sky screen; the Oehler has about 4' between screens-approximately). They were not corrected to the muzzle.

EZ

Add about 12 fps then to the 2189 = 2201 fps
Not bad at all! Identical to what I get from my CZ 550 from the 500 Hornady RN and 78 grains of H335. Though, my ES is about 4 fps.

Bob

www.bigbores.ca

25 December 2009, 19:47

.458 Only

quote:

BTW, I'm 67 and blind in my right eye. Had to learn to shoot shoulder weapons left handed many, many years ago.

I have an identical problem. Had an accident at age 6, and learned to shoot from the left side.
I'll be 74 on the 29th, BTW.

The CZ458WM is one of my all-time favorites. I just loaded some 450 Swifts for it using H335. Will publish results when I get a chance to shoot them off.

Merry Christmas to all!

Bob

www.bigbores.ca