01 February 2002, 10:28
SamBIt's a little gaudy for my taste, but I have no doubt it's worth what they're asking, or more.
Frank Wells Custom 505 GIBBS $5,800.00 Frank Wells custom 505 gibbs On Remington 30 express action, Fired less than 12 times, 99% + Condition $5,800.00 without scope or $6,500.00 with Schmidt & Bender Safari 1.25-4x20 and warne rings, original box for scope, contact me for more images and information. TRADES CONSIDERED
GunsAmerica #976124168
Name: JOHN HOMATAS
Area Code: 815 FFL Dealer: No
[This message has been edited by raamw (edited 01-31-2002).]
A Remington 30 is CRF. They were a modified M17 Enfield action.
Mike
I must just be the jewelling is disguising it.
Mike
If I strain my eyes and really work my pea brain, it appears that the extractor may be jewelled also. That seems to make it blend in and disappear. Is that what it looks like to you?
If you look closely at the picture you can make out the extractor. It is jewelled also. So that is what jewelled is. Learn something everyday.
Kent
plus a link to the page
http://www.gunsamerica.com/fast.cgi?numguns=50&guncat=1370&startgun=41
[This message has been edited by 416SW (edited 01-31-2002).]
Kent
The price you see represnets the following:
Remington model 30 picked up at a gun show $300
Good quality 505 barrel $200
reamer $180
top quality stock blank $500
stock duplicating $125
forend tip, grip cap, recoil pad (parts) $100
sights $200
model 70 safety (parts) $130
labor: 100-150 hours
bluing $150.
Total: $5800
That means the gunsmith got about $40 per hour for his labor. Considering I have to pay $60 per hour to get my car fixed, the gun is a pretty good deal.
I don't mean to me a wise-jack, but top quality custom guns take lots of TIME to build.
It's a little gaudy for my taste, but I have no doubt it's worth what they're asking, or more.
quote:
Originally posted by Kent in IA:
Now do not take this the wrong way but why would somebody pay that much for a rifle? Could someone explain that to me? Particularly one that is made out of a military surplus rifle that probably cost $50.Kent
Some folks realise that there is a difference in the quality between a custom rifle and a factory rifle. The least exspensive 505 Gibbs I've seen is a Ruger M77 magnum that was re-bored and chambered, and it's $2500.
There are very few rifle actions capable of holding the 505 Gibbs. The modifications to the P-14 to fit the cartridge are extensive, and require a very skilled machinist to perform. I would expect at least 40 hrs of work to open up the reciever, fabricate a magazend and follower, and then add another 10-20 hours to make sure the thing feeds reliably.
Turning a wood blank into a stock is roughly another 40 hr job.
Add another 20 hrs for metal prep and finishing. Add 20 hrs for sights, and other misc finishing work.
And if it was H&H, they give the man a 4 inch block of steel and 2 files and say make a front sight 
Mike
quote:
Originally posted by Mike375:
Paul,And if it was H&H, they give the man a 4 inch block of steel and 2 files and say make a front sight
Mike
Mike, if it said H&H on the gun, then there would be a 1 in the front of the price, and a zero in the back!
My friends uncle actually considered the job too easy. This is a guy that builds fully functional scale models of steam locomotives. I saw one of them I think it was a 1/12 scale. He used ground up charcoal in the firebox and the throttle in the cab worked. It was very cool. The actual locomotive was about 4 feet long and about a foot high.
I forgot to mention he did all the work in one Saturday while I visited.
Again thanks for the insight.
Kent
[This message has been edited by Kent in IA (edited 02-01-2002).]
Yeah, and I have a feeling I know what you farm Just don't burn up too much of the harvest.
Why would anyone buy a $5000 4 wheeler or a $10,000 roping horse or a $55,000 new Lincoln or a $30,000 diamond stick pin or ya ta ta whatever...It mostly depends on where your priorities are...don't you think?
I'd take the gun or the money, probably in that order.
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Ray Atkinson
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Ray Atkinson
I farm corn and soybeans and raise hogs and cattle. I do not know what your problem is, but this guy is a hell of a machinists. He apprentiship at the Pennsylvania Railroad and is a Journeyman. All he did was bore out the bolt face mill it and install the sako ejector, mill the rails abit, and head space the barrel. It did take another visit to work out the feeding. That did not take all that long though. He had made up a new follower for the magazine and we just fiddled around with it a bit to make it feed. I am sorry if you are paying for so much machine time at your gunsmith. I just though of it. You don't think that you can build a 500 Jeffery on a M700. Come on down to Iowa and I'll let you shoot it. You can fly into Waterloo or Des Moines. I am about an hour from Waterloo and about 2 hours from Des Moines.
I did neglect to say that this guy has made several guns. He was experienced.
I apologize Ray if I upset you. I did not mean to. I was only trying to understand why you would pay that much for a mil surp actioned gun. You could get a stock for $2500 bedded to you barreled action. I can buy the mil surp rifle for $150 and have it machined and the barrel installed for less than $500. All together I would have $3150 invested and the gun would be exactly how I wanted it.
Kent
There is a lot more that goes into converting an Enfield than what goes into coverting a rem 700. On the rem, you were able to re-use the mag box. On the enfield, you have to build a new one from scratch, as well as open up the receiver length and width (just the right amount, not too much or too little) and fit the mag box. The mag box must have just the right pitch or it won't feed right. The rails must be opened enough to feed properly but not too much or the cartridges will pop out. The ramp must be ground to the right width and angle. Build a new, longer follower with a differnt offset to work with the cartridge and new mag box. The bolt face must be opened and the extractor ground. Maybe the ejector needs work. The crap trigger must be rebuilt. Convert to cock on opening. Remove and weld up the new safety. Fit the model 70 safety (lathe and mill work to do nicely). Remove ears from receiver and mill receiver for aesthetics. Even removing the old barrel from an enfield/rem model 30 requires lathe work.
Add to that the fact that the steel on an enfield/rem model 30 is about rockwell 50 hardness which turns cutters into mashed potato, and it is quite a sticky project.
And don't forget how slow and painstaking it is to get perfect wood to metal fit on a good piece of English walnut.
I don't question your uncle's abilities as a machinist. But I doubt he could make a living if he charged $3000 or even $5000 for a rifle as pictured in the link. Usually custom guns of that type are in the range of $8-12,000 if you get one built for you.
quote:
Originally posted by Kent in IA:
PaulH,I farm corn and soybeans and raise hogs and cattle. I do not know what your problem is, but this guy is a hell of a machinists. He apprentiship at the Pennsylvania Railroad and is a Journeyman. All he did was bore out the bolt face mill it and install the sako ejector, mill the rails abit, and head space the barrel. It did take another visit to work out the feeding. That did not take all that long though. He had made up a new follower for the magazine and we just fiddled around with it a bit to make it feed. I am sorry if you are paying for so much machine time at your gunsmith. I just though of it. You don't think that you can build a 500 Jeffery on a M700. Come on down to Iowa and I'll let you shoot it. You can fly into Waterloo or Des Moines. I am about an hour from Waterloo and about 2 hours from Des Moines.
I did neglect to say that this guy has made several guns. He was experienced.
I apologize Ray if I upset you. I did not mean to. I was only trying to understand why you would pay that much for a mil surp actioned gun. You could get a stock for $2500 bedded to you barreled action. I can buy the mil surp rifle for $150 and have it machined and the barrel installed for less than $500. All together I would have $3150 invested and the gun would be exactly how I wanted it.
Kent
Kent,
Actually I have $300 into my 500 Jeffrey as well, occansionally one comes accross a deal or two, and works out a trade. I will have alot of work to do with the barreled action when I get it though.
To what levels have you loaded the gun? How has the action held up? What type of stock, and did you add a second recoil lug to the barrel? How many rounds through it? How many rounds fit in the magazene?
As you say, you could get the gun the way you want it for a certain price, other folks have other standards and tastes, and are willing to pay for it. If you have a gunsmith buddy or friend who is willing to subsidize your gun by working for free, or nearly so, then good for you. Not everyone has that option.
I apologize to Ray for the mil surp stuff. I don't know were to get a Remington M30, but I am sure I could find some M1917 at a gunshow.
The M700 has held up fine so far. I have been shooting 440 grain bullets using 116 grains of Rel 15. I don't have a chronograph so I do not know how fast they are going. This load doesn't kick too back either and is accurate as I am. The stock is the original factory Remington stock. This rifle was originally a custom shop stainless 416 Rem Mag with synthetic stock. By friends Uncle bedded it using somekind of special bedding plate that is glued into the stock. The recoil lug of the receiver fits into the bedding block which then runs up the forearm about 6". This stock had to be milled out to fit the block. Like I said the guy did this as a favor to my friend his nephew and he know his shit.
Kent
Kent, why don't you load up some 570 grain woodleighs to 2350 fps to see how your 500 would do as a cape buffalo rifle?
Kent
Was always curious why Rem decided to use such a large action to build a rifle for such small cartridges as the 25 Rem and 30 Rem. The Rem Mod 30 rifles were apparently more expensive than the Win M70 from what I understand, at that time. I recently missed another nice Rem M30 with double-set triggers & Lyman 48 in 7x57! Regards,
Jeff P
Try http://www.huntingtons.com
I have purchased Woodleigh bullets there several time and they always had what I wanted.
You can also try some Hawk 600 grain bullets.
Hawks are about half the price of Woodleigh.
http://www.searcyent.com/forsale.htm
Here's a nice looking win m70 in 500 jeffery for $4500.
http://www.westleyrichards.com/usedguns.asp?Type=Rifles&ID=200112615172246
[This message has been edited by 500grains (edited 02-02-2002).]
Kent
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Ray Atkinson
Do you think this is a novel approach to 505 Gibbs building?
You know what? You could even build a 500 A-Square that way too, just as cheap as you feel comfortable with.
How do you like my new style. I am pretending that I am Will, the curmudgeon.
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Happiness is a warm double and a bloody spear, but a 375 or a 416 will do just fine!
RAB