Nyati brass - Bertram or ????

28 September 2003, 17:12

Looking for some Nyati brass, but the only source I have found is Bertram and I had dreadful luck with their brass (using it for a wildcat)

Are there any other sources out there?

Or, if not for Nyati, what about 577NE as this is the parent case for the Nyati and we can always turn off the rim and cut the extractor groove ...

28 September 2003, 20:19

<J.G>

Try Horneber in Germany. I use his nyati-brass and Iï¿½m very pleased. It comes formed and ready to load.
Address:
Dieter Horneber
Siegelsdorferstr. 34
907 68 Furth

Prepare to wait for your brass after you have ordered...

J.G

29 September 2003, 00:57

Yes make the effort to get some Horneber stuff it is the best. HOWEVER, in the .585 Nyati I have not had drama's with Bertram Brass as I am loading to low pressure I think, and my neck in my rifle is structured so as to avoid problems with the Bertram stuff.

Robgunbuilder helped me with this.

29 September 2003, 05:34

MartytW

Already have a note in to Dieter as he is doing a custom job for us right now. And yes indeed, waiting is part of the game, originally Dieter told us we would have the brass two months ago ....

Then again, I have encountered the same issue with Jamison and Starline, no personal experience with Bell as to brass, they were extremely helpful in working on obtaining some old arsenal case making equipment ...

Thanks for the replies!

29 September 2003, 08:17

Robgunbuilder

MartytW-On the 585 NYATI the problem really isn't the brass, although Horneber appears to be the best. The problem is the neck dimensions that Ross seyfried first developed and nearly every reamer out there duplicates. The old propagation of error problem. The neck dimension must be increased about.003- .004(tapered) or good luck getting a loaded round into the chamber. The brass is so thin and erratic in thickness that neck turning isn't a reliable option. Just about everyone who has ever fooled with this cartridge has run into this problem. You either need to have a custom chamber reamer made which contains the correct neck dimensions or a custom neck reamer made to correct the existing chamber.
As for waiting on Dieter, I'm waiting 6 months now for some brass and I'm in contact with him weekly!-Rob

[ 09-28-2003, 23:18: Message edited by: Robgunbuilder ]

29 September 2003, 15:33

MartytW

quote:
Originally posted by Robgunbuilder:
The brass is so thin and erratic in thickness that neck turning isn't a reliable option.

Rob - this is what put the 510 Phalanx on the back burner. We had several pieces of 585 brass, took dimensions, made the drawings and had tooling made. Then when we started forming, the formed rounds ended up tragically messed up. Inspection revealed thickness variations to a point where we just trashed the brass ....

Renewed interest from folks overseas has us looking at another shot at it, but getting decent brass as a starting point is a must. If anyone has a piece or two of Horneber 585 brass they are willing to sell, let me know.

29 September 2003, 16:51

captnemo

quote:
Originally posted by MartytW:
Looking for some Nyati brass, ...
Or, if not for Nyati, what about 577NE as this is the parent case for the Nyati and we can always turn off the rim and cut the extractor groove ...

Marty

I have a couple of BELL 577 NE base cases that someone started to modify into Nyatis--rim turned-off and extractor groove cut. When I bought them, it was suggested that someone was trying to form 505 Gibbs cases. The Gibbs case is a little longer than the Nyati (and I think that it has a rebated rim--I don't have my books with me, right now); depending on your design, the gibbs case might allow you to experiment while you are waiting for 577 and/or Nyati cases. In the meantime, I'll dig up my modified 577 cases and send you an e-mail.

the_captn

30 September 2003, 04:31

Robgunbuilder

MartyTW-While I was suffering thru building my NYATI, I learned quite a bit about the origins of the case and in fact saw the original M98 based NYATI built by sterling Davenport for Seyfried. There are a number of rim variations including some rebated to .590 ( .416 Rigby the original version.) , but most are .640 ( same as the 505 Gibbs). The problem is there are other differences in the rim thickness, extractor cut bevel, extractor cut diameter etc. I worked with Dieter Horneber to pretty much standardize what we have and produce a case that effectively works in the 10-15 Nyati's that I know of. If you want those dimensions, I can send them to you. I have developed a revised version that actually works quite well and is insensitive to minor brass neck thickness problems.-Rob

30 September 2003, 05:37

<BMG>

MartyW,
I've got some .585 Nyati Brass from HH. E-mail me.

BMG

30 September 2003, 06:30

500grains

I get occasional sticky extraction with Bertram 585 brass.

Some of the rims on Bertram-made 500 NE brass are too thick so my gun cannot close if I use them.

30 September 2003, 15:36

MartytW

quote:
Originally posted by captnemo:
... depending on your design, the gibbs case might allow you to experiment while you are waiting for 577 and/or Nyati cases. In the meantime, I'll dig up my modified 577 cases and send you an e-mail.

the_captn[/QB]

'Preciate the note, and let me know what you find on the modified 577 cases.

Regarding using the Gibbs cases, we have a stack of 408 CT brass, so I can use it, but the concern is that our 510 Phalanx was based on the 0.660" base diameter of the Nyati, whereas the CT/Gibbs has a 0.640" base ...

Might try one anyway ....

30 September 2003, 15:38

MartytW

quote:
Originally posted by Robgunbuilder:
I worked with Dieter Horneber to pretty much standardize what we have and produce a case that effectively works in the 10-15 Nyati's that I know of. If you want those dimensions, I can send them to you. I have developed a revised version that actually works quite well and is insensitive to minor brass neck thickness problems.-Rob

Yes, please let me know what those dimensions are, as I am hoping Dieter can supply me with some brass, or else use the Nyati as a good starting point for our Phalanx. You didn't by any chance have Dieter strengthen the web to allow higher loaded pressure? [Big Grin]

30 September 2003, 16:08

Robgunbuilder

MartytW- Better yet, I have a carbide Lathe tool I made to cut the rim, extractor cut and bevel of the 600 OK1 which is essentially the same as that of the 585 Nyati. If you want to send me some 408 Chey Tac brass I could modify it for you. That way you would have brass with really good web thickness to start with. Fritz 454 could also do this I'm sure on his CNC equipment. I'm completely manual!
Yes the difference in Base dimensions will have some effect although I'd sacrifice this dimension for the added strength of the Chey Tac case myself. At the time I started the brass buisness with Dieter, I didn't think of having him increase the web thickness, although It still appears to be much much better than the Bertram junk.-Rob