Let us suppose that you can only own a 223 and a real "Big Banger". In other words, the Big Banger will have to do just about everything.

From 458 Ultra (460 G&A) and up, which would be your pick for the best "Big Banger" and what are your reasons.

Mike

[ 10-14-2002, 11:37: Message edited by: Mike375 ]

Mike,

I suppose the big bore I would choose (if you were only allowed one big bore and a .223) would be a .500 A2 due to availbility of good brass and woodleigh bullets here in Australia including there 440 gr black powder varient which could be used for smaller stuff. I hate to be practical and would prefer a .585, .500 jeff or .505 gibbs. But if your saying we are only allowed the two rifles then the industry in Australia would be pretty sparce and in that case the practical aspects of the .500 A2 must be considered. The .460 weatherby would also be a good cantidate for brass and availability of .458 cal bullets, but I am not sure if the .460 weatherby meets the power specifications of the question.

PC

From 458 Ultra (460 G&A) and up

So the 460 is OK and with room to spare.

Mike

[ 10-14-2002, 11:47: Message edited by: Mike375 ]

Gentlemen
A 450 rigby.

Easy to find quality brass for, since you can reform 416 cases. Large selection of bullets up to 600 grain. Better SD than most standard weights in 470, 500 etc. Great case to keep pressure low even if the sun is doing it's best
A classic cartridge that would do for small armoured cars, if needed. For a flatter flight path stoak it with 350 grains barnes X

Another option would be a 460 G&A. I prefer it before the 458 Ultra because 404 brass is easier to find in the dark continent. 460 performs simular to the 458 lott plus a tad more.

Cheers
/ JOHAN

[ 10-14-2002, 22:06: Message edited by: JOHAN ]

I'll bite on this one, and I'll be chewing the same fat as PC. Slice me off a piece of that muktuk, please.

If it is the best "big banger" you want, it has got to be the 500 A-Square.

Let us remember that it can duplicate Nickudu's buffalo bashing 505 Gibbs ballistics, and also it can put Quigley "down under," as it will lob the 50 BMG target bullets to 1000 yards still supersonic and way-sub-MOA, much better than Quigley could do with his antique.

That is why this gun geek has taken the 500 A2 and given it a 30 degree shoulder and a Dave Manson throat, and called it the 510 JAB, my very own pet cartridge, and I don't care if anyone else in the whole world has one but me. I got two.

Mike,

I am ignorant of the .458 ULTRA and the .460 G&A I have only heard of them I have not seen the ballistics. Even though the .460 W fits the specs I feel we are lucky in Australia having the availbility of woodeligh at our door step which provide us premium bullets at the same cost as what would be charged for American regular hunting ballistics, and in .50 cal and up. Also despite the issues with Bertram Brass we are still lucky to have that source there, even if it does mean Reduced loads.

PC,

458 Ultra is the 300 or 375 Ultra necked up to 458. The 460 G&A is the 404 necked up to 458 and then Improved. They are both the same except for a few thou in case head and body diamter.

Ballistically, if all else is equal, they will fit right between the 450 Ackley and 460 Wby.

Mike

For All general hunting?
If I were to look at the question from the standpoint of utility and economic feasibility, both initial and in later use, I would select the .458 Lott. Were I to look at it from the perspective of final gun weight versus magazine capacity, I would, again, select the .458 Lott. I lean this way, with the knowledge that a bottlenecked case design of greater capacity would offer better feeding characteristics and lower operating pressures with a given bullet weight and velocity. I feel the power of this cartridge is entirely adequate for heavy game and can easily be based on a lighter action, such as the Model 70, affording a result more in line with plains game rifle.

470 Nitro

Gotta love the classics, and the power is wonderful.

I have a 223, so if I'm limited to a bolt rifle the choice would be the 458 LOTT would be my choice hands down! all the power needed for anything I would be allowed to hunt, on Earth, easy to make ammo, plus factory ammo, being able to use 458 Win Mag ammo in a pinch!

If I'm allowed to have a double rifle, then the choice would be the mundane old 450NE 3.25" the cartridge all other double rifle calibers for dangerous game were judged by till it was outlawed in 1906!

Either one of these two cartridges will do anything that is needed, with no fuss, no muss, or bother! That's my pick folks!

Nick and Mac,

No 458 Lott. Check question again. From 458 Ultra or 460 G&A and up.

Mike

O.K. Mike. Well, I've got to keep that .458 bullet selection so I'll go with the Rigby version.

Nick,

Given you reasons on Post 1 for taking 458 Lott, it would seem that your next choice would be a 458 Ultra or 460 G&A, especially with the Model 70 aspect. So how come the jump to 450 Rigby?

Mike

500 Jeffrey, with the 505 gibbs running in close.

Reasoning is this rifle would have to not only serve hunting needs, but it would have to be a nice classic rifle, which then again demands a nice classic cartridge. The 505 is even cooler, but the bullet dia get's you. With the Jeffrey I can load it down with cast pistol bullets @ 1200 fps for fun, load it up to proper hunting loads of 530 gr @ 2200 fps, and even make it serve for light anti armor roles by pushing 670 APIT's at 2200 fps.

I would choose the 458 lott, but you didn't allow it, and none of the larger cased 45's appeal to me the way a 50 does.

Mike,

You did not give us much to choose from. As much as I like the 450 Rigby, I will have to choose the 460 Weatherby as my only one big bore rifle but only with a CRF action though. I just love those 45 calibers and can't get enough of them.

I second Johan on the Rigby (as you'd expect from all my praise of it) because of the versatility of all those possible .458 bullets. Load it up, load it down, cast lead gaschecks to monolithic monster slayers, it will do it all.

(But I still want a .505 Gibbs)

Mike,
If I can't build around the .458 Lott case head I'd go with the Rigby with a drop magazine as the Rigby case is ideal for the 500 grain Barnes bullets.

Ming,

I only excluded the 458 Win and 458 Lott. You have from 460 G&A through to "the skys the limit"

I wanted to see if the "practicality" of the 458 Win and Lott was removed, would people just opt for the next one up, that is the 460 Ultra/G&A or in fact jump right past it and head to the 450 Rigby/Dakota/Weatherby or onto the 50 calibers.

Mike

458 AIM or Lott.

If I need something bigger, just give me an M-60 tank, 50 Caliber browning, and M-60 in 308.

If many rounds of the above fail, just give me the 105 mm with an exploding projectile.

If I REALLY have to go over 458 my choice is 50 BMG.

s

2 Bore works, as well.

s

The 500A2 would be my pick. Incredible flexibility in bullets in a weight class where they get the big stuffs attention and a package that won't bust the bank to build. With that said, The 458 Ultramag IMHO in a Ruger M77 Safari grade would be a viable alternative. A little more poop than a 450 Ackley and more rounds than a 460 WBY. After that, the 600 Overkill in a CZ action for those "magic Moments when only enough lead in the air really counts"-Rob

[ 10-17-2002, 00:16: Message edited by: Robgunbuilder ]

I would be real happy with my 470 Mbogo. Reasons: Shootability of a 500 grain bullet at 2500 fps with moderate pressures and a very reasonable trajectory. Holds four in the magazine and one up the tube. Hits hard and breaths easy.
470 Mbogo

I'd take a plain old Weatherby Mark V Deluxe in 460 with the Accubrake.

OK: MY most practical is out, the 450 Ackley.

Next choice has to be a 700 BMG improved, with the best muzzle brake I can find, heavy stock, good gun bearer, and some nice, hard cast 1200 grain bullets.

Course I could go with Gene's Capstick 50. The 308 to the BMG's 30-06, gives you a 750 grain bullet at 2600 fps.

s

Socrates- For the 700 Imp, you will indeed need a strong gun bearer or at least a pintle mount for the Safari car. At least in this caliber near misses are still instantly fatal.-Rob

Robgunbuilder:

Well, if it's fantasy, how about a 2 bore improved?
You take a 20mm anti-aircraft round, neck it down to take, owe, about a 5000 grain GS HS round...
Think you can get 2400 fps out of that setup?

s


[ 10-19-2002, 13:11: Message edited by: Socrates ]

Robgunbuilder...!

Have you take any pictures of the .600 BMG IMPROVED yet???

[ 10-19-2002, 18:14: Message edited by: Overkill ]

Overkill

Have you bought any guns yet or are you still playing around. Please tell us what you would have picked in this case

You seems to be a very experienced big bore shooter.
Don't be shy

/ JOHAN

I suppose if I had to disregard double rifles and couldn't pick a 404 or 416 Rem...then I would just go with the 505 Gibbs, but Lord I hate that stomper.