Big Bore Double Rifle

03 February 2002, 06:18

T.Carr

Craig P,

Here are some doubles that are in that price range.

Searcy

http://www.searcyent.com/fieldgrade.htm

Chapius:

http://champlinarms.com/gundetail.cfm?id=690

Here's another dealer of Chapius:

http://www.chadicks-ltd.com/chapuis.htm

I believe Merkel also makes a double in that price range.

Regards,

Terry

[This message has been edited by T.Carr (edited 02-02-2002).]

03 February 2002, 11:16

<FFg>

Cape Outfitters has a few Merkel .470's listed for $6,800 (http://www.capeoutfitters.com/Firearms/double_rifles.htm). Ask for Larry.

I have a Merkel 9.3x74 and I really like it.

The Chapuis is nice. I would get it from Champlin Arms. Talk to J.J.

FFg

04 February 2002, 06:51

<yorick>

I saw Cabelas is selling a double rifle. Anyone know if its any good?

http://www.cabelas.com/cabelas/en/templates/product/horizontal-item.jhtml?id=0003216213405a&navAction=push&navCount=0&indexId=&podId=0003216&catalogCode=IC&parentId=&parentType=&_D ARGS=%2Fcabelas%2Fen%2Fcommon%2Fcatalog%2Fitem-link.jhtml_A&_DAV=0003216213405a

04 February 2002, 14:29

<Rusty>

CriagP,
The best buy in a double rifle today is Kreighoff in 500/416 N.E.
A friend bought one this past year for under $8K. The 500/416 is a great chamering, flanged case and a good penetrating .416 bullet!

A double in .470 is a good value, however remember you are going to have to fire that .470. The recoil is going to be. . .well let's say very BRISK!

As more hunters have more experience with the 500/416 I feel it will see a surge in it's popularity. Now I'm not saying it is will be replacing the .470. The .470 is the double rifle round that all other double rifle rounds are judged by. However the 500/416 is a better all around chambering and it sure doesn't beat me up like a .470 does. Just my opine.

Since they don't chamber rifles in 450/400 3 inch these days (my favorite), I'd opt for the 500/416.

Rusty
We band of brothers!

04 February 2002, 15:38

Kent in IA

Rusty does the 470NE kick harder than a 458 Win Mag?

Kent

05 February 2002, 02:26

<Rusty>

For me it does! Of course I don't like shooting either one!

05 February 2002, 03:57

500grains

The 470 NE should kick the same as a 458 win mag as they have the same ballistics (500 grains at 2150 fps).

But if you are spending $8K on a Krieghoff, why not get your money's worth and get one in 500 Nitro Express?

05 February 2002, 04:15

<Terry P>

Ballistics for the .500/.416 NE (3 1/4")
(Test barrel 25,5" / 65cm)
Pmax:

Bullet:
Velocity:
Energy at muzzle:
39,885 psi (2,750 bar), Copper crusher method
44,962 psi (3,100 bar), Piezzo method
Bullet: Woodleigh softpoint and solid 410 grs (26.6g)
Velocity: 2,330 ft/sec (710m/s)
Energy at muzzle: 4,940 Ft lb (6,700 J)
These characteristics indicate an ideal combination of high energy and flat trajectory. The .500/.416 NE provides maximum effectiveness with moderate pressure. As shown above, velocity and energy are similar to the belted .416 calibers like .416 Rigby, but the .500/.416 NE offers the supreme advantage of a rimmed case suitable for double rifles.

Rusty,
What kind of accuracy does your friend get from his Kreighoff? Does he have it scoped?
Terry

05 February 2002, 04:51

MacD37

quote:
Originally posted by 500grains:
The 470 NE should kick the same as a 458 win mag as they have the same ballistics (500 grains at 2150 fps).

Actually the average 470NE kicks less than the average 458 Win Mag rifle, because of the difference in weight, and design of the rifle. The average 458 Win Mag rifle made in the USA is around 8.5, to 9.5 lbs, and kicks streight back, and rolls the muzzle up. The average 470 double rifle weighs 11, to 12 lbs, and the rifle kicks less streight back, and the right barrel rolls up, and to the right, and the reverse for the left barrel. The extra wieght, and the rolling off to the side developes less FELT recoil.

Another website to look at is www.gsifirearms.com

------------------
..Mac >>>===(x)===>
also DUGABOY1
DUGABOY DESIGNS
Collector/trader of fine double rifles, and African wildlife art

[This message has been edited by MacD37 (edited 02-04-2002).]

05 February 2002, 05:52

<Rusty>

Ted gets about a two inch group with his 500/416 at 100 yards.

He has a new set of 7X65R barrels and is working on a load with some 175 grain Woodleighs. He has a scope on those barrels. These barrels have an adjustable wedge.

Rusty
We band of brothers

06 February 2002, 17:15

fla3006

If I were considering buying an expensive classic double rifle or shotgun, prior to doing so I would invest an additional few dollars and attend the Antique Arms Show and the International Sporting Arms Show in Las Vegas, held together 3 times a year at the Riviera. I just returned from there. You will never see as many high quality, world class guns under one roof to select from. Everyone who appreciates fine guns should attend these shows at least one time in their life.

06 February 2002, 19:21

<Vasa>

Rusty, Terry, ...

The recoil is not bad at all out of my Krieghoff 500/416NE - anyone used to a 375H&H will have no problem. Both 470Mbogo and Daryl E. have tried it out.
I reload for mine using RCBS dies, cases from Bell and (so far) 400gr. Hornady and Nosler bullets. 470M gave me a batch 430gr. LBT hard cast, gas checked bullet - I have not tried them yet. So far I have used IMR 7828 powder (no fillers) but will probably go to H1000 since it is somewhat slower and also temperature stable. I have reloading data that was worked out in Germany if somebody is interested.
The Krighoff has a Swarovsky 1-4x24 (30mm) scope in quick detacable mounts. Groups have been down to 2" off-hand, open sights at 50yds. I will do some bench testing using the scope come spring up here. The Krieghoff is a beautiful gun, and flexible enough that I can use it on big Moose and Bear.

Vasa

09 February 2002, 01:20

<Double50>

Nice to read about interest to big doubleguns. Merkels and Krieghoff's are very accurate, but their prices are too high for me. I made by myself these doubles. Prices are then much more comfortable for me.
Opinions about recoil vary a lot between shooters. I like to shoot .50 AK double, one of my friends who has .458 Win Mag says that it is nastier to shoot.
Feel free to ask more about these selfmade doubles.

09 February 2002, 02:28

Daydreamer

quote:
Originally posted by Double50:
Feel free to ask more about these selfmade doubles.[/B]

Welcome to the forum Double50!

Come on - tell us about your selfmade doubles!

Franz

------------------
Franz A. Holzer

Franz@Holzer.com

09 February 2002, 08:28

<Double50>

Thank You Franz for warm welcome to the forum.
I am going to send my ideas and pictures of my doubles in this forum as soon as get digital photos done. Main idea is to use good quality side-by-side 16 cal shotguns as
basis and put on that tubes whose caliber satifies user.

13 February 2002, 04:16

MacD37

Double50, makes it sound "SIMPLE" doesn't he?

Welcome aboard Double50, we can always stand another double rifle shooter here!

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..Mac >>>===(x)===>
also DUGABOY1
DUGABOY DESIGNS
Collector/trader of fine double rifles, and African wildlife art

[This message has been edited by MacD37 (edited 02-12-2002).]

14 February 2002, 00:29

<Double50>

Thanks MacD37

Building a double is quite simply thing to do. But when You are going to get both barrels to shoot on same point real work starts. Maybe this is one reason why these fine doubles costs 5000 - 10000 USD.

Double50

14 February 2002, 03:12

MacD37

quote:
Originally posted by Double50:
Thanks MacD37
Building a double is quite simply thing to do. But when You are going to get both barrels to shoot on same point real work starts. Maybe this is one reason why these fine doubles costs 5000 - 10000 USD.
Double50

<<<<<<<< SMILE >>>>>>>>>

Thats where the skill comes in,along with fitting ribs, building sights, and Blacking, Otherwise just about anyone could do it!

For a very skilled amateur to build a double rifle that would be something you would take out in public,first off you want to start with a high quality action+, then the ammo expended alone in the regulateing process could cost as much a $1000USD, depending on the chambering. 470 NE factory ammo runs $240 per box of twenty.That's $12 USD per shot, and if this is a rifle you may want to sell, it should be regulated with factory ammo.

Example: To have a double rifle re-regulated to a new load, the price is always a set price for the re-regulation+ the cost of re-blacking, and ammo. Example: On a price list in front of me now,from Champlin Firarms Inc. the cost of re-regulateing is $425 USD+ ammo+ $200 up, for the re-blacking+ re-cutting of any engraveing. All I'm saying here is this isn't a thing that just any plumber, with a pair of pliers, and hammer is going to do properly!

I have built a few double rifles over the years, but the first one I attempted, was a dissaster, and I finally gave up on it. At that time, I did not understand the dynamics of loading for a double, or the regulation. Once I learned the rules,subsequent ones have come out alright, however, with three of them placeing 4 shots, 2 from each barrel, under a standard playing card at 100 yds. I would say each of those rifles cost me, at least, $3000USD, in actual expendature of funds, not includeing my labor, of approximently 200 hours of work. Ending up with a rifle that is probably worth no more than $3000USD on the open market. Unless you are doing these rifles for yourself, it is a looseing proposition, and certainly not simple. IMO, $10,000USD is a bargin for a working double rifle that will shoot properly!

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..Mac >>>===(x)===>
also DUGABOY1
DUGABOY DESIGNS
Collector/trader of fine double rifles, and African wildlife art

[This message has been edited by MacD37 (edited 02-13-2002).]

14 February 2002, 07:42

<George Hoffman>

Gentlemen"
If anyone is interested, I was in the doctory office this morning, and he told me he had a .500 3" double with a set of 12 ga barrels for it. His is talking $25,000 I believe it is English made there were other people waiting so we were talking as I walked out to door.
George

15 February 2002, 01:23

<Double50>

OK MacD37 I get Your point.
I am doing these doubles for myself, due the high prices of "factory" made ones. You were lucky if find these rules out only making one double. I have built,rebuilt and wrecked about ten doubles when trying to find out what exactly happens on that time when primer burns and few milliseconds after that. You are also right when saying that it is not a job for every one. (that's why my best friend is good gunsmith)
But my point of view is that if You don't have this $10000 USD, you must find a other way to get double. On other hand i don't know prices in US markets ( used or new ).
But 10000USD here in skandinavia is a lot of money for rifle. Also in our markets doubles over .40 cal are very rare.

Double50

15 February 2002, 06:22

MacD37

Double50, I totally agree with you on the reasoning for building your own if that is within your capabilities. The reason you state is what prompted me to build my first one. The cost wasn't the only reason, however, but at the time European, and British cartridges were very hard to find here in the USA. My first one was built in an American chambering, 30-40 Kreag, so I could shoot it. It was so hard to get Europien ammo in the 1950s that I bought a HOLLAND & HOLLAND best grade side lock, in mint condition, in the oak & leather maker's case with an extra set of strikers, and factory turn screws for the vey good price of $900 USD. This rifle was made for someone in Germany prior to WW II, and chambered for 9.3X74R. The ammo or componants to load this rifle were non-existant here, hence the low price. The preveous owner couldn't shoot it either.

I wish I still had that H&H rifle today in the condition it was in, it would be worth $30K USD today.

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..Mac >>>===(x)===>
also DUGABOY1
DUGABOY DESIGNS
Collector/trader of fine double rifles, and African wildlife art