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Re: Sabots

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19 October 2004, 21:11
Dave James
Re: Sabots
Contact the guys who put out the "Black Powder Hunting" mag, there are several groups who put out very good Sabots, some designed for high pressure loads in BP guns, one is "Harvester" E A Brown and Mikes reloading pages has or had several different calibers listed with sabot loads,,, I have played with them in the 30 carbine for a couple of years,the trick seems to be no boattails, and makeing sure they are square in the base,of the sabot
20 October 2004, 04:53
MartytW
Quote:

If anyone knows what material is used for the sabot, we will try making them and doing some tests, especially in the larger caliber.



US military SLAP (Sabot Light Armor Piercing) sabots are made from GE Plastics resin called ULTEM (r), which is a very high temperature resin. I should know, I am one of the few engineers who ran that facility for GE.

The 50 to 30 cal sabot works well for the SLAP round, and can deliver tremendous performance. The 30 to smaller cal version was discontinued due to the fact that some of the projectiles tried to exit the firearms PRIOR to the muzzle (not pretty).

The Remington versions appear to be a nylon resin, and the commercial 50 to 30 cal smell like polycarbonate. Trick is to ensure concentricity of both the sabot and the seated projectile. Also important is to keep in mind that the twist of the host weapon must be sufficient to stabilize the guest projectile. For instance, the faster twist 50 cal barrels (50BMG) will stabilize the 30 cal tungsten penetrator, as the heavier material makes it shorter. However, if you were to try a 458 to 308 version, the slower twist of the 458 (say 1 in 14 or 16) would require the shorter, lighter 308 bullets (110 gr). I have the design for a two piece simple discarding sabot for the 458 to 308 and it would take about 30 days to have 50 or so made, with the dies available for larger runs afterward.

Sabots require a fair amount of black magic voodoo to make them work. "Sabot" as he posts here would be a great resource due to his "day time job" work and his experience. He and I have Emailed at length on this topic.

The black powder sabots have one minor flaw for use in centerfire rifles: their actual size. The 45 cal is 400 diameter, the 50 cal is .451 daimeter and the 54 cal is .500 diameter. These are the PISTOL calibers and not the rifle calibers - so the 451 version will not properly work in the 458.

Also, to get the maximum performance is a tweaking of load like you wouldn't believe. You want really fast powder to drive the light sabot load, but too fast and the sabot will not seal fast enough and the gas will blow past and the violence of the shot will shred the sabot. I have fired the Hornady 451 to 357 version in our mild 458 SOCOM and found nothing but shreds of plastic and the bullet hit about 50 yards ahead of me in the dirt ....

You could try taking the commercial 50 to 30 cal and turning them on the lathe to 458 and testing them in something like a 458 Lott. I have a few bags of them for use in our 500 Phantom and would be happy to send a few to the adventurous soul willing to lathe and test them
18 October 2004, 05:06
Ganyana
Has anyone tried shooting sabots out of a .458 or similar rifle? I am thinking of a .40 cal 400grn bullet out of a .45 cal rifle. Specifically lookinfg for a way to make a .45-90 into a suitable DGR>
18 October 2004, 14:17
HunterJim
Ganyana,

Only in muzzloaders with black powder.

I do know that Remington spent a lot of time developing the loads they used in their Accelerator cartridges, and those powders were reported to be not available to handloaders.

jim
19 October 2004, 00:37
Saeed
If anyone knows what material is used for the sabot, we will try making them and doing some tests, especially in the larger caliber.
19 October 2004, 00:42
Ganyana
If the bullets stabilise I will mean that all the lever action fans will be able to use their .45-70 or bigger on dangerous game - safely! I look forward to your results with interest as I am very fond of my winchesters (71 & 86). Great cat rifles but would love to carry them in elephant country.
19 October 2004, 00:44
p dog shooter
There is guy posting under the name Sabot. He was doing all kinds of testing on load development with them.



He said he was going to get into manufactureing of them.



he would be the one to ask
19 October 2004, 06:01
HunterJim
Saeed,

Here is one source (E.A. Brown). They use and sell nylon resin sabot.

http://www.eabco.com/Reports/report04.html

I have seen other for sale, but didn't enquire as to material.

jim
19 October 2004, 06:07
GeorgeS
Fine idea. I'd like to find some sabots that would enable me to propel .458 bullets from my .470 Capstick, which should surpass .458 Lott velocities a bit.

George
19 October 2004, 06:10
Urodoji
I'm interested in .458 to .30 cal sabots, and .470 to .458 as well.

-Uro