What do you consider acceptable marksmanship?

08 May 2001, 18:14

loud-n-boomer

To you PH's and such, what do you consider reasonable or acceptable marksmanship with a large bore rifle?

For instance "10 shots in 5 seconds into an 2 inch circle at 500 yards, off-hand while being watched by the all of the camp staff" or "3 shots into a 12 inch circle in 5 minute at 10 yards, and since nobody was looking, you have to trust me"

I ask because I'm curious in that I think I shoot my .450 Watts fairly well, but a PH may disagree, and I would like general opinions. I am not so much looking for exact numbers as general impressions from what you see when the client walks into camp.

09 May 2001, 01:19

p dog shooter

Hitting your target where you aim on the first shot is more important than any thing esle. But to do that you should be able to get good groups during pratice a couple of ins for every hundred of yds with most hunting rifles well kill your game for you at resonable hunting ranges.

09 May 2001, 08:02

RCHAPURA

what kind of accuracy are you getting out of your Watts. That 500 gr cast load I sent you is a great practice round. off hand at 100 yds it will keep all of the rounds under 3" if I do my part. Have not shot it lately been playing with my Taylor.

Good shooting, good hunting!

09 May 2001, 10:22

500grains

If most hunters could hit a 12" bullseye offhand at 100 yards, we would all be a lot better off than we are today.

Personally, I like hte idea of a Swedish shooting test before issuance of a hunting license.

09 May 2001, 13:46

Mark

Is that the one where they make you lay on a massage table for an hour while Helga and Olga proceed to massage all your muscles into jelly, then you have to stand and shoot 5 shots with a minimum of 300 grain slug at a 6 inch circle @100 yds offhand?

09 May 2001, 18:04

loud-n-boomer

Rich - I have not tried your Watts load yet, I am still working on my hunting loads, but it looks like IMR4320 is the best performer with 500 grain bullets at about 2300 fps. Groups are around 1-1/2 to 2 inches at 100 yards from the bench.

500grains - Your answer is a bit of a relief, as I consistently can keep all shots in a 12" circle at 100 yards off-hand at a pace of one shot every 5 to 15 seconds. My goal is 6" groups for three shots in 15 seconds by the middle of August when I leave for Africa. I practice by dry firing three to five 3-shot rapid fire strings per day, and live three to five 3-shot rapid fire strings off-hand once a week if possible. All live firing is with my .450 Watts and full power loads, all dry firing is also with the Watts. My concentration is on shot placement first and foremost, smoothness of follow-through and bolt manipulation second, and speed last.

In addition, I have a running/walking coarse laid out around my property, which is about 3/8ths of a mile long with a 65 foot elevation difference between the high and low point. I have not cleared the brush on this trail, and carry my rifle as I run/walk six to eight laps, once a week.

I guess my ego is such that I don't want to make a fool of myself by either being out of shape or over-gunned/a lousy shot.

MarkWhite - Where do I sign up for your Swedish Shooting Test?

11 May 2001, 05:27

470 Mbogo

[QUOTE]Originally posted by loud-n-boomer:

It sure sounds like your doing everything right to me. Practicing rapid fire with the full loads is great fun and will build your confidence with your rifle. We have a lot of guys at our gun club that talk about 3/4 and half inch groups and shooting stuff at 400 and 500 yards. Well we have our meat shoots so when I was shooting director I introduced off hand five shot groups as part of the fun.
To make a long story short there were a lot of targets that could be re-used. Have you tried Winchester 748 in your Watts. I used it in my 450 Ackley with great results. It's temperature stable, burns at a lower temperature and was very accurate with good velocities. In the Ackley 96 grains produces 2370 fps. witha 500 grain bullet and I've used more and had velocities just over 2400 fps with no problems. In the 458 Lott the A-Square manual shows 90 grains for a velocity of 2298,and a pressure of only 41,800 PSI with a 465 grain bullet. I never really had any success with IMR 4320. I found it would group two together and one flyer consistently. Winchester 748 is a very good powder for these types of cartridges. Wish you great success on your trip. Your PH will be impressed. 470 Mbogo

11 May 2001, 12:28

D Hunter

Can somebody give us the details of the Swedish test mentioned above? "D"

11 May 2001, 14:02

Bill in NE

I suppose that Mats and others are not going to share the info with us??

Probably afraid that we would wear out the examiners. (Helga and Olga)

Afaid of having some good ol boys from the states show you up, Mats?
Whats the deal? Bill

12 May 2001, 03:44

<Mats>

quote:
Originally posted by Bill in NE:
I suppose that Mats and others are not going to share the info with us??
Probably afraid that we would wear out the examiners. (Helga and Olga)
Afaid of having some good ol boys from the states show you up, Mats?
Whats the deal? Bill

LOL Bill...

Well, the shooting proficiency test/exam is nothing big - personally, I think it stinks, the demands are not set tough enough. The practical tests you have to pass are:

1) Basic shooting with shotgun: Hitting 3 out of 6 clay targets thrown straight from you.

2) Basic shotgun range estimation: Walk a trail where different targets (fox, roe deer, hare) are put up at distances unknown to you. You are to decide which are within shooting range (30 meters) and which who are not - it should be noted that no targets can be placed within 20-35 meters, so they're either close enough or very far.

3) Basic rifle shooting: From a benchrested position, put four shots within 12 cm at 80 meters. Further, put four shots from a "field position" (usually sitting on your behind supporting the rifle to a tree) within 17 cm at 80 meters.

4) Special rifle shooting (for Class 1 - big game - only): Managing three target-area hits out of four on two standing and two running moose. The target area is the size of Milwaukee...

As I stated previously, the level of proficiency needed to pass the test is l-o-o-o-w... Last summer my neighbour mentioned that his sister had taken the exam, age 55. He said something to the effect of "She ain't never fired a rifle before, still she passed with flying colors on the first try!"

I pointed out to him that this was a sad reminder that the test is too damn easy...

I think most of my SHOOTING friends from Sweden agree with me.

-- Mats