New gun coming in today; need advice

14 April 2004, 05:18

I have purchased (subject to a 3-day inspection and approval period) my first double rifle. It was overnighted to me yesterday so it should be here soon. The gun is a .470 sidelock that was featured in the most recent edition of The Double Gun Journal (Winter 2003) as well as in the March/April issue of Sporting Classics .

I was faxed copies of the targets from when the gun was shot last week. It is pretty much dead on at 60 yards, causing Lewis Drake of Roosevelt and Drake to say "it's the most accurate double I have ever owned." I can't attest to that, of course, but the results from the range do look impressive. Lewis also said the recoil is quite moderate compared to other big bores he has because of the gun's straight stock. Here's a picture of the stock. (it's a large pic, so dial up users might pass)

Anyway, considering I've never owned or shot a double rifle, I have 3 days to make up my mind as whether or not I want to keep it. Any suggestions on what all I should do as I make this evaluation?

Thanks!

Here's a picture and a description from Roosevelt and Drake of the gun that is coming in:

Beretta "Model 455"

Best self-opening sidelock double rifle in .470 N.E. Weight 11 ï¿½ lbs. Stock dimensions: 14 ï¿½"x 1 ï¿½"x 2 ï¿½"x 1/8" cast-off. Superb 26" chopper-lump "Bohler Steel" barrels with ï¿½ rib and 50yd. fixed/100yd. flip-up rear sight and ramp front sight. Bores absolutely 100% mint. Worlds finest reinforced, self-opening, Holland and Holland action with double underlugs, Holland hidden third fastener, bushed firing pins, ejectors, double triggers with articulated front trigger, non-automatic safety, and hand detachable side locks. Minimally engraved and gold inlaid case hardened action and locks are flawlessly finished and of superlative quality. Figured pistol-grip stock with rubber recoil pad and case hardened steel trap door compartment in the toe of the butt for two spare rounds of ammo. Splinter forend with lever release. I can't say enough about the overall quality and feel of this magnificent firearm except to say that it is the equal of any double rifle by any maker I have ever owned and it shoots just as good as it looks. If I were going after dangerous game on any continent this is a rifle I would not hesitate to take. Overall this specimen remains in 98% as new condition and is a bargain by any standard.

14 April 2004, 05:39

N E 450 No2

Spring
Very nice looking rifle.
The three most important things are:
1. Does the rifle fit you? Does it feel "right"
when you shoulder it?

2. How does the rifle shoot FOR YOU. I would shoot the rifle at distances of @ 25, 50, 75 and 100 yards, from field shooting positions.

3. Can you take the recoil? Does the rifle hurt your face, shoulder, or the fingers of you trigger pulling hand?

If the above results are positive then If you like the rifle I would get it.

Let us know how she shoots.

My 450 No2 weighs 11 3/4 lbs, I have fired 50 rounds at one time on many occasions. Once you get used to it the weight is not noticeable while hunting in the field.

14 April 2004, 09:13

fredj338

ne450, is the .450 No.2 basically a .45x120? I have seen a couple of rifles for sale chambered in this round. I like the idea of a .458 dbl. because of all of the good relatively inexpensive components.

14 April 2004, 09:43

MacD37

Quote:

ne450, is the .450 No.2 basically a .45x120? I have seen a couple of rifles for sale chambered in this round. I like the idea of a .458 dbl. because of all of the good relatively inexpensive components.

the 450#2 is basiclly a 45-120????????

The 450#2, and a 45-120 are as different as night and day! The 450#2 is a bottle necked case based on the 450 NE case head size, and ia 3.5" long, it shoots a 480 gr bullet ahead of 80 grs of cordite, for a velocity of 2175 fps, and develops 5050 fpe at muzzle. The 45-120 is a straight case, based on the 45 basic case, (the same head, and rim size as a 45-70) This long 45-70, will be lucky to push a 480 gr, paper patched, lead bullet, to 1350 fps, and barely developes 2000 fps at muzzle.

The 450#2 NE is the longest cartridge made for a shoulder fired rifle, and is one of the best all round .458 cal double rifle rounds around!

14 April 2004, 09:51

Brent

Quote:

Quote:

This long 45-70, will be lucky to push a 480 gr, paper patched, lead bullet, to 1350 fps, and barely developes 2000 fps at muzzle.

Mac - just so you know - it will easily push 480 at 1350. Even a .45-90 can do that. It will push a 550 at 1350 with ease. Not that you would care - but some of us that shoot these things with regularity do like to get the details straight.

Brent

14 April 2004, 11:24

Spring

N E 450 No2,
Picked the gun today and I love it! Fits like a glove and that's not only my opinion but also the opinion of my local gunsmith. While there we looked at the appraised value of the gun that he had in his book and we both were amazed at the price I was able to get. Basically he said that I got a gun that was priced at 90% while in 98% condition. Now I just have to go and shoot it and see how I like it after that. Like I said, I've never shot a gun bigger than my .375, so I guess I'm looking forward to that as well!

14 April 2004, 11:28

500grains

14 April 2004, 12:49

Rusty

just make sure the rifle is on the face and it looks like a very nice rifle.

15 April 2004, 04:03

MacD37

Brent, the fact is, the 450#2 is "NOT" BASICLY, or any other way, the same as a 45-120. That is the point I was trying to make!

I have shot all the old 45 cal so-called BUFFALO cartridges,as well, and find them fun to play with. They are fine for stump shooting, and hunting deer, and black bear, but only an idiot would think the 45-120 would even remotely compare with a 450#2 NE! There is considerable difference between 5050 fpe, and 2000 fpe, when applied to a live animal.

Now the details are straight!

15 April 2004, 04:52

Brent

Quote:

Brent, the fact is, the 450#2 is "NOT" BASICLY, or any other way, the same as a 45-120. That is the point I was trying to make!

I have shot all the old 45 cal so-called BUFFALO cartridges,as well, and find them fun to play with. They are fine for stump shooting, and hunting deer, and black bear, but only an idiot would think the 45-120 would even remotely compare with a 450#2 NE! There is considerable difference between 5050 fpe, and 2000 fpe, when applied to a live animal.

Now the details are straight!

I know ya have Mac - and I know how much ya hate them. And we all know that a 120 is not a #2. And we all know what you think of shooting critters with less than atomizers, and so on and so forth.

BTW, the velocities we were discussing for the 120 were bp velocities of course. With smokeless they are much higher. And no, they well never be as high as your esteemed #2. No one ever said they were or would be or could be.

Go blow'em up now...
Gees o petes!..........
Brent

15 April 2004, 06:55

MacD37

Quote:

ne450, is the .450 No.2 basically a .45x120? I have seen a couple of rifles for sale chambered in this round. I like the idea of a .458 dbl. because of all of the good relatively inexpensive components.

Brent, I don't have anything against the 45-120,It simply is not basicly the same thing as the 450#2 NE. Your statement that NOBODY thinks the 45-120 compares to the 450#2 NE is dispelled by the quote above! That is what I was responding to, and I still hold the same opinion. They are not remotely the same basic cartridge.

Why is it, that everyone wants to make a cartridge something it is not, nor was intended to be? Then get hot when the comparison is de-bunked. I love the 45s, of old, designed for use in the USA, I own several, but they are not somehow magic, they are simply what they are, nothing more, or less.

As far as atomizeing anything, the 450#2 NE is not a real stone blaster, in fact, it is quite mild as large chamberings go. One thing for sure is, there is a great difference between it, and any of the old 45s from North America.

I don't understand the thinking of some folks. You have those who reccomend the 460 WBY,now you are talking a atomizer mentality. Personally, I have to say, I would rather have the 45-120 in a good solid modern rifle, than a 460 WBY for use on game,but I would far rather have a little 375 H&H flanged,in a good double,for Africa, than either of them.

As for me being an ATOMIZER type,the 460 WBY boys call me an obsolete cartridge lover, you guys need to get together!

my favorite round for Cape Buffalo is a little 450/400 3" (400 gr bullet pushed at 2125 fps, developeing 4005 fpe) double rifle,hardly an ATOMIZER! I don't, and have never owned a 450#2NE.I, however, do know the difference between, a 45-120, and a 450#2, a fact that seems to have been lost on some!

I have a double chambered for 45-110,and I love it, but that, in no way, makes my opinion change when compareing the 45-120 to any of the .450 NEs, the 45-120 is simply inferior to even the mildest of .450 NEs, or even the little 375 H&H Flanged, for that matter.

Use the 45-120, or anything else you want, but all the posts in the world will not make it a twin or anything close to a 450NE of any type.