The Accurate Reloading Forums
Re: Anyone ever neck up the .416 Lazzeroni case?
10 July 2004, 06:32
CanuckRe: Anyone ever neck up the .416 Lazzeroni case?
FYI, from Lazzeroni's website (pdf article)....
09 July 2004, 11:23
IdahoCTDThere seems to be plenty of big bores on the Rigby, Jefferey, and big Weatherby cases but no mention of the Lazzeroni case. I've heard they are well made cases (tough)so it would seem to be a logical choice for a big bore wildcat. Anybody know of any in existence? Also after checking the price on brass for several of the big bores it seems like the Lazzeroni brass is fairly cheap @ 2.00/case compared to some at 4.00+/case. The only downside I can possibly see is a fairly sharp shoulder and straight case walls which might cause some feeding issues. All these can be cured by going to more taper and a shallower shoulder though.
09 July 2004, 11:28
ASS_CLOWNIdahoCTD,
I haven't heard of any. The Lazzeroni cases is basically a beltless Weatherby, so it could be an improvement over some of the "wildcats" based on that case.
ASS_CLOWN
09 July 2004, 12:05
CanuckAnd the Weatherby is a belted Rigby (improved somewhat)...
I believe the 12.04mm BIBAMUFU is the 416 Meteor necked up to .475? (and therefore very similar to the 470 Mbogo)
Canuck
09 July 2004, 12:27
ASS_CLOWNCanuck,
Quote:
12.04mm BIBAMUFU
Does that count, IIRC that cartridge was done by Lazzeroni.
Actually the Weatherby (and the Lazzeroni) is slightly smaller in base diameter ~ 0.007" than the Rigby.
If the Weatherby is an "improvment" over the Rigby I cannot understand how/where. The Rigby actually has a slightly stronger web! The web is the weak link for both these (Rigby and Weatherby, pretty sure for the Lazzeroni too) cases.
ASS_CLOWN
09 July 2004, 12:44
CanuckOf course it wouldn't count as a "wildcat" cuz it was created by Lazzeroni on his own case. But if you just looked at Lazzeroni's current offerings on the website, you might not realize there actually was a "factory" offering on that case, in a caliber exceeding .416 -- which may have been what caused this original question to be asked?
I guess the real answer to the question posed would be.."Yes, Lazzeroni did.".
I should have used a smilie next to the statement "improved somewhat", as any improvement is negligible. Obviously Weatherby thought a double radius shoulder and shorter neck was an "improvement".
For all intents and purposes, the three cases (Lazz, Rigby and Weatherby) are fraternal triplets. Not identical, but very closely related.
Canuck
09 July 2004, 13:10
ASS_CLOWNCanuck,
Actually I should have used the smilies, as I was pokin' a little fun at ya.
I mean you were being serious, and I was being, well an ass clown (read smart ass).
ASS_CLOWN
09 July 2004, 13:33
IdahoCTDAC,
I thought the Lazz. case was enlarged in the web to handle higher pressures? I thought I read they were loaded to 65000psi. If that is the case then I would say the web isn't near the problem it would be in the other two. I guess I better check there site out as I haven't been there in awhile. I was just curious if anyone had any first hand experience with "Big Bores" on the case. It might make a great case to push a .510 bullet, somewhat like a 500a2 less the belt with tougher brass.
09 July 2004, 14:00
Mike375IdahoCTD
I think a 500 Lazzeroni would be really pushing the shoulder size limit as I think the Lazzeronin case is maybe 10 thou smaller than the Rigby/Wby and I think this was done to prevent people from using 416 Rigby brass to make Lazzeroni cases.
I have no experince with Lazzeroni brass but it is worth noting that over the years there have been postings on the Lazzeroni brass that have rated it from very good to terrible.
Just my personal opinion, but I would never get involved with a Lazzeroni calibre when the same case capacity was available from the Norma Rigby or Wby brass. 505 Gibbs, 500 Jeffery, 585 Nyati etc are a diffefent deal because the Rigby/Wby simply does not offer the same case capacity.
Mike
09 July 2004, 15:06
smallfrymaybe this is something to the web issue... for some reason and I would have to check my notes, but someone was telling me that the cases are made from modified rimless 470 NE brass?? I dunno. Someone go look into that for me, so I dont have too.
But who cares anyways? If your wildcatting to wildcat thats fine, but if you are looking for some "newly discovered ballistic wonder" your about 50 years to late.
09 July 2004, 15:14
OldsargeQuote:
if you are looking for some "newly discovered ballistic wonder" your about 50 years to late.
Let's be realistic. There are only so many things you can do with the available run of cartridge cases. Most of those cases are little, if any, different from what someone in Europe or Great Britain did 'tween wars . . . at least in function. Yes, modern powders do give you a bit more unnecessary pop than they could have gotten back then. But . . . I have said before and I will maintain until someone proves, either mathematically or by symbolic logic, me wrong that there is absolutely nothing new in cartridges. Nothing, you understand, NOTHING! So if you are wildcatting for its own sake, drive on brother, but if you think you're somehow going to come up with something "new and better", hah!
09 July 2004, 15:49
IdahoCTDThe only reason I asked the original question was to find out if anyone had played with them. I didn't necessarily say I wanted to build one. There are also other reason to come up with wildcat cartridges besides bigger and better, like cheaper and better brass. A lot of the rare cartridges cost just as much for a reamer as a custom as do the dies.
10 July 2004, 02:42
ASS_CLOWNIdahoCTD,
I am not sure about the web on the Lazzeroni. If it is significantly reinforced that will only reduce the internal volume, which means that the pressure will go back up again, which kinda defeats the purpose of reinforcing the web. It is a catch 22 in many ways. I believe that they Rigby will do anything that the Lazzeroni case will.
I must agree with Mike on the 0.510 bore. There would most likely no be enough shoulder to achieve consistent headspacing, unless one utilized an extremely tight chamber. Tight chambers are NOT good on DGR type rifles as they don't handle dirty or dinged up cartridges well. Of course you could headspace off of the case mouth, but that too kinda SUCKS.
Good luck in your wildcatting endeavours.
ASS_CLOWN