is anyone making big bore wildcats out of the new class of short magnum cartridges? like...416 WSM, 458 WSM, 375 WSM, ect. how about a 500 WSM? they would make great short range brush guns wouldn't they. (not elephant, medium game)

Dr. J,

Jim Busha at Heavy Express has two lines of cartridges based on the .348 Winchester case, and Winchester knocked off his design to introduce the .300 WSM.

I have a .450 HE SAM for testing, and other forum menbers have some of the other calibers.

See http://heavyexpress.com for the details and ballistics...jim dodd

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"if you are to busy to
hunt, you are too busy."

I think that .416 might be the limit so there is enough shoulder to headspace on.

To do a 50 you would need to headspace on the mouth of the case, like a 30 M1 carbine, as there would be no shoulder....Mike

I have one of Jim Busha's .416 HESAM. It is based on a Ruger short action, restocked, etc. As I've stated in previous posts, I am very happy with it, using 400 grain Hornady bullets, both solid and soft, getting 2250 fps or so with very mild loads out of a 22" barrel. That's traditional .404 Jeffery power and quite powerfull enought for Buffalo, I'm sure. It has a detachable muzzle brake, but I've never felt the need to use it.

I haven't measured the case capacity of the Winchester SAM, but I'd bet that a .416 based on it would give about exactly the same figures. According to Busha, the .375 version of his rifle gets better than .375 H & H ballistics with lead core bullets (A-Frame, Trophy Bonded, etc.). His figures show the .338 as a real performer, too. My guess is that Winchester will eventually make rifles in larger than .300.

[This message has been edited by judgeg (edited 05-15-2002).]

I have a .375 based on necking up the short Lazzeroni Patriot case which is very similar to the WSM....2600 fps with a 23" barrel is do-able with a 300gr Nosler but it is much more comfortable to shoot at 2550 fps.

In a big bore you usually want low pressures for reliable extraction in hot climates (e.g., Africa).

To achieve acceptable velocity and low pressure, you need large case volumes.

Consequently, the short mags are not very desirable as a starting point for big bores.

500....I don't think Africa is any hotter than L.A. or San Antonio or a lot of places in the US...if fact I like to go to Southern Africa during the Summer here in California so I can enjoy their cool Winter weather.

I've always thought that a 460 Weatherby case chopped down to 308 length would be interesting in either 375,416 or 458 caliber.

I know Gil Van Horn did this but stuck with a 30/06 length case.He got great performance.I think a 308 length case on the 460 in 375 would be pretty impressive,both ballisticly and recoil wise if out of a light gun.

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I'm out to wrong rights,depress the opressed,and generaly make an ass of myself!

Brian...the head size on the short Lazzeroni case (no belt) is 0.577" and is 2.05" long.
What's the head size on the big Weatherby (without the belt)?

I do know of one influential person at USRAC that is pushing Olin to release a 375 WSM... I'd think that would be "ideal" on the WSM case... with a 20" bbl!

Not sure if it will happen as most of the "action" is in the smaller bores... 257 or 6.5 will probably be next.

Brad

DB Bill,

A beltless 460 would be the 416 Rigby case.Don't know what the headsize on it is,but I'm sure someone here knows.

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I'm out to wrong rights,depress the opressed,and generaly make an ass of myself!

If winchester comes up with a 375 version, I will be very excited. even in a 338 would be nice.

designers should not try to be too worried about small case/low pressure/ heat. these big bores would not be designed to take on the big monster beasts. I don't think they could load enought powder to give adequate velocities. use on elk, moose, deer, bear, boar, etc.

Brian M....they must be close because I need to use the same size shell-holder as the Rigby.

I think winchester should do 9,3 mm short mag , they would sell two of them , both to me.

No in reality, 375 short mag will be next