This is a direct quote from the weekly Field & Stream newsletter many of us get:<BR><BR> <B>Best New Rifle #2: Winchester Model 70 Safari Express</B> <BR><BR>This hefty, dead accurate .375 is so far superior to previous Model 70s that the only thing they share is the name. It has had the kind of care lavished on it that you only see in custom rifles, little touches that no one but a gunsmith would notice. If a rifle is good enough to have two critics with something like 90 years combined experience examine it in every detail and not be able to think of a single way to improve it, it’s a pretty good gun. -D.E.P. <BR><BR>Manufacturer: Winchester (winchesterguns.com) <BR>Price: $1,349<BR><BR> <IMG class="inline_image" SRC="http://www.fieldandstream.com/files/imagecache/photo-single-upscale/photo/38356/Win_Model-70-Safari-Express.jpg"> What do you think?AgreeDisagreeI can't say because I personally haven't fondled it and therefore shouldn't vote.

Nice guns but never liked the rear sights.

I did put that I can't say at this stage
even though I have handled one, I think you
need longer to make a decision.

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quote:

Originally posted by 500N:
I did put that I can't say at this stage
even though I have handled one, I think you
need longer to make a decision.

Fair enough. I too feel that I need to handle (and of course shoot) a rifle or shotgun more than once before I can pass judgement. Albeit, junk is junk and that is always easier to spot.

.

I'm sure happy with mine!

I voted "can't say," but see no reason why it would not be a quality rifle. Modern plant, reported high quality control, inspection, proven action design, etc., but as to whether it is the "best new gun" is open to a lot of discussion. I bought a Ruger RSM in 375HH some years ago and overall an excellent rifle with lots of features the Winchester does not have, but had the Winchester been available then, would have opted for it due to it's more slim lines and lesser cost as well. Believe the Winchester is a "working" gun moreso than the Ruger due to excessive weight, balance, etc. of the Ruger. Having said all of that, I will keep the Ruger.

I voted disagree since I have two that are from the old plant, a 375 H&H and a 458 Winny and both shoot well and are of very good quality. I have handled several of the new ones and there is VERY little if any difference in quality of build from what I see. As a matter of fact, both of mine have nicer woodgrain than any of the new ones I have seen to date. That being said, I am happy to see them back. A true bargain.

Firstly I have to say that the only big bore I have ever owned is a new Model 70 .375H&H, so I can not compare its function to other models.

Overall fit and finish is very good, well above what the model 70 had become. The stock is fairly straight grained, without much figure, it seems to be a strong, well built stock but is a bit bulky.

Overall the gun is definately hefty, mine is 9 lbs 13oz empty. I find that the heft definately improves my shooting, it is easy to hold the gun steady. However, I would prefer a slimmer profile on the barrel and a slimmer stock to shave some weight. The Pachmayer recoil pad absorbs recoil well so I would prefer a weight of closer to 9 lbs.

I find the action to be smooth, and feeding to be reliable with everything I have shot so far (Hornady factory 279 grain SP, and Sierra 200 grain flat nose handloads). I will soon have some Barnes and Woodleigh solids, and some Woodleigh 350grain softs to test.

Personally I like the NEGC sights and can shoot well with them out past 100yds or so off of shooting sticks.

The only complaint I have heard is that the trigger is not as simple and foolproof as the original pre-64 design. It is however a decent trigger, crisp and easilly adjustable.

I chose the model 70 over the CZ 550 and Ruger African, I am happy with my choice.

I don't see "hefty" as a positive attribute, but have not handled one.

Does not look like an express sight.

Mike

quote:

Originally posted by Kenati:
Albeit, junk is junk and that is always easier to spot.
.

Absoluetly.


BUT, some of the old Winnies that came out LOOKED FINE BUT WOULDN'T FEED AT ALL.

And because these were in 375H&H and other calibres, that why I reserve my judgement.


Re weight, I really do think people crap on about the weight of guns far too much.
Grow some muscle.

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I handled one and really liked it. If I had not traded into my Mark X I would have purchased one in .375 H&H once my disability settlement came through. Of course I am a rookie, what do I know?

How can it be that great? THE BOLT IS ON THE WRONG SIDE!!!

quote:

Originally posted by Hizzie:
...once my disability settlement came through.

Good to know that whatever ails you isn't preventing you from shooting big bores.

I bought one for my first Big Bore in 416 Rem Mag and absolutely love it. I found the factory bedding job to be sparse and did a full bed job on the action and barrel for peace of mind. I am also goind to apply a Duracoat finish for extra peace of mind. I have become so addicted to Big Bores that I'm already contemplating my next rifle.

I read a lot of opinions on this forum in order to help narrow my choices down to a few rifles and calibers. I especially like the advice Ray Atkinson and Jeffeosso have given and leaned on their experience a lot. In the end I am so impressed with the work Michael458 has done that it had to be a Winchester M70. He was right.

though it was a tad too heavy, the best feeling factory 375 I've ever held was a Whitworth Safari Express hands down.

i'm hoping the 375 i'm awaiting will one up that one!

Mine from 2005 works brilliant: 4/5 inch groups for 5 shots - works super...

I have "old" left-handed Model 70's in .300WM, .375 H&H, and .458 Lott (I rebarrelled a .375H&H). All three are accurate with a variety of ammo. They're easy to carry and shoot (though the .375 and .458 are heavy). I'm sad they changed the triggers, though. I think they're each the best hunting rifle in their category.

I'm curious what the other "touches that only a gunsmith would notice" are? And what other differences there are from the guns of 5 years ago? Hopefully better QC in the new plant, and I know about the triggers. What else?

Regarding former build quality: I had some mechanical problems early on with the safeties (two of the three were recalled) and I sent back in a LH .338WM because the scope-mount holes were crooked and the barrel threads were visibly not concentric. They couldn't fix it, so they sent me the second .375. I imagine/hope moving the factory to South Carolina fixes the manufacturing problems.

Steve

I think they should offer it in a barreled action so that those who like to customize their rifles with fancier wood don't have to pay for wood they won't use. In addition, there are many for whom that stock will not fit them for one reason or another.

I'm happy with my 375, I'd be happier if it was 1.5-2 lbs lighter, and maybe with a slimmer stock.

I've always found Winchester stocks to be really good - always about the right size for the rifle
and well styled but most of all comfortable to shoot.

I've found "thin" stocks of bigger bores just not comfortable.

.

I don't see a difference in the picture from my new haven safari express in 375, I voted however that I hadn't handled and therefore shouldn't vote.

that said, I was told my my gunsmith that I was fortunate, mine must have been a mid week gun, as it was built very well. The only thing I have to sort out is the last round/single round in a magazine doesn't come fully under the extractor until almost completely chambered, excellent factory gun though.

Red

I have two of the older ones, both customized for me by other gunsmiths. They are my go to guns when I am in Africa. I have a 325 WSM in the new Winchester and it is a fine gun, so I would have to believe that the new .375 is a fine gun too!

They are fine rifles, especially for a grand or so. I have a NH 416 built "right" as well. The only real corner cut IMO is that front sight. While trying to remove mine tapping the blade with the base supported the entire base fell off. There was very little thread contact from that single screw. It now wears one of Jim Wisner's banded sights. I also replaced the extractor with a William's which I believe the new ones come with? Feeds beautifully. I picked up a NOS fully machined and sanded stock from SWFA some time ago for $50 and am going to give it a whirl slimming it down, adding an ebony forend tip, steel grip cap, etc. It is a pretty nice piece of wood, much nicer than what the rifle came with.

Nice looking rifle, I'd be happy if one of those was mine.

I think the only changes I'd make would be:

1. Put on an Ebony forend tip
2. Replace the express sights with a good NECG set
3. A nice metal grip cap

Then I'd go to town and put plenty of rounds through it to ensure it feeds and cycles properly.

I have owned several bolt guns in 375 H&H and my favorite so far is the M70 Safari I bought last year. They did it right this time.

I like it a lot but don't see it as being so far above previous 70's, particularly with that new trigger.

quote:

Nice looking rifle, I'd be happy if one of those was mine.

I think the only changes I'd make would be:

1. Put on an Ebony forend tip
2. Replace the express sights with a good NECG set
3. A nice metal grip cap

Then I'd go to town and put plenty of rounds through it to ensure it feeds and cycles properly.

I'm with this!

I bought a 300WM in Sporter version and not the Supergrade because Winchester seems to think that ebony = plastic and a grip cap = plastic grip cap.

I liked the rifle very much, but that and the shiny blue job made me opt for the Sporter.

The Safari would be my first choice for a new 375. I'd add the forend tip and grip cap myself if I wanted one.

quote:

Originally posted by prof242:
How can it be that great? THE BOLT IS ON THE WRONG SIDE!!!

You got that right!

quote:

Originally posted by AfricanHunter:

quote:

Originally posted by prof242:
How can it be that great? THE BOLT IS ON THE WRONG SIDE!!!

You got that right!

I would think that the lefties would band together and let Winchester know that they are willing to support the manufacture of lefty rifles. They made them before.

quote:

Originally posted by kiwiwildcat:
Nice looking rifle, I'd be happy if one of those was mine.

I think the only changes I'd make would be:

1. Put on an Ebony forend tip
2. Replace the express sights with a good NECG set
3. A nice metal grip cap

Then I'd go to town and put plenty of rounds through it to ensure it feeds and cycles properly.

The rear sight is a NECG.

I've owned six new M-70 rifles from the Carolinas..... two in 7-08, two in .308, one in .270 and one in .325 WSM and not a beef on any of them....

That said...the Safari rifle is a tad heavy for me....my only complaint!

quote:

That said...the Safari rifle is a tad heavy for me....my only complaint!

Agree. The stock on mine weighs 44 oz, hence my plan to put the second one I am working on a diet. The original is big everywhere.

quote:

The rear sight is a NECG.

Yes, you are quite right. I should have qualified my original post by saying to replace the rear sight with one of those nice NECG folding leaf express sights.

I also like the NECG banded front sights.

I don't mind the weight and over all I am quite pleased for a stock rifle.

I have a New Haven one and like it very much.

I can't really say because I just don't have any experience with the new Winchester. However, if I was buying a new .375 (I'm not) I would take a long look at the .375 Ruger because I like the cartridge/rifle combo better. Nothing wrong with the H&H version though. It's a classic.

Mine's an older New Haven. One just after they went back to CRF. I'm very happy with it. The weight doesn't bother me, because I think the balance is there. Mine weighs right close to 10 lbs with scope and rings, which sounds heavy, but the balance just "feels" right.

I haven't handled one of the new SC guns.

I am a model 70 fan "nut" and have been for a long time. Calibers from .270 to 416. I cant see any major improvment in the new ones. There were some lass than perfect rifles built toward the end of the New Haven run. But excluding that the average fit and finish of the old guns were as good as any of the new rifles I have handeled. The new trigger seems fine but the old one was simple and excelent so I wonder why they bothered with the change?

Its alot better in a 416 Rem mag.I have had one a long time.Its my favorite big bore rifle!!!

Midway has a few original Winchester 70 replacement stocks, both RH and LH, but unfinished, uncheckered, etc.. While they run $300 and up, some are very fancy looking grain. If I had a 70 with a synthetic stock, I'd be looking at putting one of those aside for later, as there won't be more.

Just be sure you are getting the right action length, barrel diameter, etc. They still have some choices. Heck, these are for NH models, but I am still thinking about putting aside a LH one in anticipation of finding a rifle to suit it in the next few years. <g>