Fury01,

I get your point about hanging the grease grooves out in front.
I would roll the loaded rounds in wax paper before shoving the LongCOL grease-groovers into a bandolier.
Sort of a "paper jacket" to protect the lube.
But I do not need to do that if I use powder-coat paint.
The PC paint works much like a real paper patch but with smokeless instead of BP.
8 bucks for 1 pound of Harbor Freight Red, and it will do thousands of bullets.
Also adds a few grains and a thou or two to the bullet, and can be sized down too,
makes the driving bands shinier.

Rip ...

Copied from the .45-70 thread,



I guess I am retiring the PH bullet to the .45-70 Govt.
Above were my first three shots from a clean barrel and it did not get any better.
It was windy today, had to hold the chronograph tripod down with a hanging sandbag.
I could not get a single reading, just errors.
When I went to investigate/re-set chrono, I found grease cookie splatter all over the tripod and chronograph.
Lucky I did not destroy anything with my grease gun.

I packed it in, will give the .45-70 with PH and BP (and no grease cookie) a chance on another day.
The .45-2.6"-SWT is better with smokeless:



Maybe Goldie Pedersoli-Ruger will backslide to smokeless after all.
She is fickle !

Pleasant loads from the .45-2.6"-SWT for .457"-grooved rifles can be sized for .459"-grooved rifles in either .45-2.6"-SWT or .458 WIN LongCOL.
No, problem whether 1:20", 1:18", or 1:14" twist.
I can even size them specially for the .458"-grooved Ultima Winchester-McGowen.

Rip ...

No shame in using Smokeless Rip. I've been itching to buy an 8 lb of Buffalo Rifle powder, which is AA-5744 by another name and $50 cheaper but I have over 20 lbs of IMR 4759 now. Same sort of performance.

quote:

Originally posted by Fury01:
No shame in using Smokeless Rip. I've been itching to buy an 8 lb of Buffalo Rifle powder, which is AA-5744 by another name and $50 cheaper but I have over 20 lbs of IMR 4759 now. Same sort of performance.

Great ! I have near 8 pounds of IMR-SR4759 too !
Fear not that I am ashamed of using smokeless powder.
I am merely getting some historical baseline on BP loads that killed so well for the Oldtimers,
and still do, like sharpsguy's zebra killer load for the .45-70.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fqs543qxTHE

The softer-heavier-alloy (WW-Pb 50-50) PH is about 480 grains.
When I cast the many 500-grainers in harder-lighter-alloy they come out pretty close to 480 grains.
They are bigger diameter too, and can be PC-painted and gas-checked, to work in the .458-.459"-grooved .458 WIN with smokeless.

There is method in my madness of shooting the .456-.457"-grooved .45-70 BP loads.

I will be showing how easy it is to duplicate all levels of .45-bore sporters, from equalling the GREAT .45-70 Govt. at all power levels,
to exceeding the NOTsoGREAT .458 Lott in a 3.6" magazine box.

I do have a fondness for that 480-grain bullet weight of the .450 Special Rigby, later known as the ".450 Nitro Express."
Original ballistics for it were 2150-2200 fps in the long-barreled DR of John Rigby.

It will be nice to have a full Mach Number spread on .458 WIN loads in a bolt-action, scoped rifle.
23" barrel and less than 8 pounds bare rifle weight:

The .458 WIN with the .30-06-length magazine box can do plenty, pure SAAMI:

480-grainers shooting accurately at 1125 fps to 2250 fps ought to take care of chores:
Cast bullets, conventional jacketed bullets, and copper or brass monometals.
It's a bit inconvenient to have to convert the 500-gr TSX-FB to 480-grain FN-XTSX-FB, but that works !

450-grainers shooting accurately at 1225 fps to 2350 fps, and there are many more choices of bullets in the 450-grainers,
SAAMI COL !
The all-copper 450-grain TSX is great as is.
There is a 450-grain brass Woodleigh Hydro too.
I might talk myself out of 480-grainers and into 450-grainers, later, for THE MISSION.

How could this thread possibly be limited to only 461 pages ?
Impossible !
This thread will never end, as long as there is a place like ACCURATERELOADING.COM and a .458 WIN fan draws breath.

Rip ...

Terrific. Now if I can just get you to expose a few Grease grooves, with Grease, to the Throat of the .458WM and not break a cold sweat, my work will be done!!

quote:

Originally posted by Fury01:
Terrific. Now if I can just get you to expose a few Grease grooves, with Grease, to the Throat of the .458WM and not break a cold sweat, my work will be done!!

Great !
Your work will never be done, just like this thread.
Doing good ain't got no end.

Rip ...

Roger that.
Standing ready.

Fury01,

Do you not use powder-coat paint on cast bullets?
Why would I want to use such inferior technology as grease-lube when I have already accepted smokeless?
Smokeless powder is not a fad !
The only thing I like grease-lube for is BP loads.
It is not as good at preventing lead fouling as it is with diminishing BP fouling, IMHO.
That is why a grease cookie is used beneath a paper-patched bullet.
Softens the BP fouling and allows the paper patch to wipe the bore clean of the previous shot's fouling.
A grease cookie works OK with a powder-coat-painted bullet and BP, I recently discovered,
but the paper-jacketed lead bullet is a better wiper than the powder-coat-paint jacketed lead bullet !

So I am swearing off PC paint and BP with grease cookie.

I am swearing onto smokeless powder and PC-painted bullets, to reproduce BP loads of yore.

I think powder-coat paint is better at reducing lead fouling than grease is.

No doubt smokeless and PC-paint can do the nostalgic external ballistics at lower pressure, same external ballistics as those loads of yore,
or higher velocity, or both.

Being stuck on greasing your smokeless loads is not rational.
You are just being nostalgic.
It is false nostalgia.
Use grease-lube with BP, that is true nostalgia.

So I might expose a .458 WIN throat to greased grooves hanging out beyond the case mouth, but only on BP loads,
and not without breaking a sweat !
I would have to wrap those bullet noses in wax paper before shoving them into the ammo carrier
(bandolier if you are Pancho Villa)
and peel off the Cut-Rite before chambering each round in single-shot fashion.

Rip ...

I am going deer hunting with the .458 WIN Saturday.
I will be using the 400-gr HV at a little over 2500 fps in Alderella Ruger-Shilen.



She did not score with that bullet last year,
but it was my first time on that property, owned by a buddy.
His too, he just moved from Idaho earlier last year,
Californians were getting too thick there for him to tolerate.
We have doubled our stand locations since then, increased from two to four.

You know, there is a town in Kentucky named Yosemite.
Locals there pronounce the name in 3 syllables, not 4 as in California.
In Kentucky it is YO-SUH-MIGHT or fight !

Rip ...

A review of 400-grain load in the .458 WIN that works through the magazine box of a Ruger M77 Mark II:




(Need to pad the page to churn the thread for THE MISSION)

Alderella Ruger-Shilen aka "The Knik Knocker" was last sighted in wearing the Zytel boat paddle stock, and a Leupold 2.5X scope.
That is her favorite hunting outfit.
TALLY HO !

Rip ...

Recall that Alderella Ruger-Shilen has groove diameter of 0.459", and the prettiest barrel slug that I have ever done:



I'll never do that again !
Use a soft lead roundball meant for .50-cal muzzleloader. Much easier to tap through the barrel with a wooden dowel,
and use a 7/16" oak dowel if you can find one, better fit than a 3/8" in a .450-bore.

Rip ...

quote:

Originally posted by RIP:

(Need to pad the page to churn the thread for THE MISSION)

Rip ...

Quite right, RIP! Old Des Cartez has been looking down his nose at this one much too long.

Thank you sambarman338 for help with the thread churning.

One last bit of review before moving on:



Note that I currently use only 3.395" COL with the scarce 400-gr GSC HV,
allowing powder charge to be decreased to 80.0 grains AA-2230,
producing 2527 fps MV
from 25" Shilen barrel.

Still well over 2500 fps, and still LongCOL.
But it is only .458 WIN LongCOL 3.4".
The .458 WIN LongCOL 3.6" easily beats a .458 Lott.
The .458 WIN LongCOL 3.8" too.
They all use the same .458 Winchester Magnum SAAMI chamber.
The .458 WIN LongCOL is three wildcats in one.
Four cartridges in one chambering if you count the SAAMI-restricted one.

Rip ...

quote:

Originally posted by RIP:
Thank you sambarman338 for help with the thread churning.

One last bit of review before moving on to new territory:



Notice that I currently use only 3.395" COL and not quite so fast with the 400-grain HV.
Still over 2500 fps, and still LongCOL.
But it is only .458 WIN LongCOL 3.4".
The .458 WIN LongCOL 3.6" easily beats a .458 Lott.
The .458 WIN LongCOL 3.8" too.
They all use the same .458 Winchester Magnum SAAMI chamber.
The .458 WIN LongCOL is three wildcats in one.
Four cartridges in one chambering if you count the SAAMI-restricted one.

Rip ...

RIP, 400 grains at 2500fps will get her done!
Even 330-350 grain 416's at 2600fps would work pretty well.

416Tanzan,

The gang's all here !

Well, a monometal copper .458/400-grainer at 2500 fps is a dang sight better than a .458/300-grain hardcast-lead bullet at 19th Century "Express" MV.

Book review:
THE WINCHESTER BOOK
by George Madis is an excellent overview of what Oliver Winchester and John Moses Browning did:



COTW:

A better elephant rifle:



COTW:

I am sure that the .450 NFBPE 3.25" was chambered in the Winchester Model 1885 "High-Wall."
I wonder if they ever did the .450 NE in it ?
The "Jeffery Sharps" rifle was merely an Anglicized Winchester Model 1885.
Other English makers used that action too.
I am sure Wal Winfer's "volumes" will provide some interesting information on that.

Rip ...

Why not a .458 Winchester Magnum Flanged aka .45-2.6"-SWT on a Winchester Model 1885?

If the first set of scope bases had worked, I'd be deer hunting with a .45-70 and cast lead bullets, BP, and grease in the grooves.
As it is, I have yet to chronograph THE ZEBRA HAMMER load of sharpsguy, and try it in penetration testing against higher velocity bullets of same 480-grain weight.
Smokeless on the latter.
BP on the former.

And thus, we have churned past half a page of replies, on the way to the next page of THE MISSION, in no time flat.


Rip ...

What about a 458 Improved in 3.6" box?

quote:

Originally posted by Mike McGuire:
What about a 458 Improved in 3.6" box?

The only one I would consider would be a .458 WinRuger, pp. 66-75 of this thread,
though we have mentioned the Fred N. Barnes version of the 1950s, a blown out 2.5" H&H case
that he claims to have been offering before there was a .458 WIN,
but after the .450 Watts Magnum.
I bet a search function utilization might work as an index to THE MISSION.



Rip ...

You need a big square post on that front sight my aged eyes friend. Even at longer ranges, seeing the sight covers a multitude of sighting sins.

quote:

Originally posted by RIP:

quote:

Originally posted by Mike McGuire:
What about a 458 Improved in 3.6" box?

The only one I would consider would be a .458 WinRuger, pp. 66-75 of this thread,
though we have mentioned the Fred N. Barnes version of the 1950s, a blown out 2.5" H&H case
that he claims to have been offering before there was a .458 WIN,
but after the .450 Watts Magnum.
I bet a search function utilization might work as an index to THE MISSION.



Rip ...

Yes, that Win-Ruger looks elegant. A Win Win.

PSA: Hornady 458 WM brass

Precision reloading https://www.precisionreloading.com/

has 4 boxes of Hornady 458 WM brass in inventory

This has been unobtanium lately