I have contacted a company whom Mike put me on to in relation to making a mould for 1200 gn cast bullets for the .585 Nyatti. As it is a special order job the cutter to make the mould costs $195.00 Aus$. Each mould following the cutter price can be purchased for $100.00 Aus following this.

To date there are three people going in for the price of the cutter which now splits the $195.00 three ways (myself and 2 others).

We would all however need to settle on a bullet design and you guy's would know what's best in that regard. The fellow who is building the cutter needs to know case length and overall cartridge length and length of the neck to create a bullet that will feed from magazine rifles.

Could I make the generlisation that if we made the bullet for those who have the 2.8 version then it would also feed for all who have the 3 inch Nyatti or Tyrranasour.?

If interested please post your ideas and we could work something out.

Regards PC

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PC, sounds interesting. Who is making the mould?

Rune, Jim Allison of cast bullet engineering. They operate from Sydney, Mike 375 is the perosn who put me on to them. We will have to wait and see what ideas get put up here and how many are interested before we finalise things I suppose.

Regards PC

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I am in:-)

Cool, well put your views on bullet design etc. up on the board. Will a bullet designed for the 2.8" version automatically fit the 3" inch versions.

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I must admit that this is totally new for me. When it comes to bullet design I guess whatever you guys comes up with works for me:-)

PC,

I forgot to ask about gas checks. Will the mold be for a bullet that takes gas checks, and if so can we buy gas checks from the moldmaker?

If not, should we design a bullet that does not take gas checks?

I am not a bullet designer, but I think we should consider duplicating the 650 grain lead 577 BPE bullet, only double length.

What do you think?

While I'm not currently interested in one of the molds, I'll add some ideas on bullet design.

For that heavy of a bullet, you want as much weight in the bullet nose itself, so an ogival wadcutter would be recomended. If you use the rough number of 80% of bore diameter for the meplat, that will give you a .468" meplat, might as well just round it up to .470". Pick whatever rate you want it to taper back to bore dia, say .5-.6", or all the way to the canalure.

This are of bullet design is out of my expertise so I will just go with what you blokes think is best.

[This message has been edited by PC (edited 01-30-2002).]

Here are some measurements I took this evening:

Bertram Brass 585 nyati cases:

case 1 OAL=2.800, neck length=0.602, rim dia=.635
case 2 OAL=2.790, neck length=0.600, rim dia=0.636
case 3 OAL=2.811, neck length=0.604, rim dia=0.640

Bullets:

Woodleigh 900 grain FNSP OAL=1.398, base to start of cannelure=0.771

Woodleigh 750 grain RNSP OAL=1.245, base to start of cannelure=0.600

Woodleigh 750 grain FMJ OAL=1.306, base to start of cannelure=0.612

Barnes 750 grain monolithic OAL=1.455, base to start of cannelure=0.716

TCCI 750 grain monolithic OAL=1.431, base to start of cannelure=0.650

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From these numbers, I would say that we want the distance from the meplat to the cannelure on the 1200 grainer to be about 0.650 to 0.700.

The rest of the bullet should be alternating grooves and lube channels.

As for the meplat, I would vote in favor of going a little small, like 0.460 diameter on the meplat. Each gun will be a custom job and none will be standardized. I would not want to make the meplat too big so that the bullet would not feed in someone's gun. We could also make the mold a hemispherical round nose like the Barnes monolithic solid to assist in feeding.

How about gas checks? Does anyone know where we can get .585 gas checks made, or do we need to get a mold for a bullet that does not need gas checks?

G'day folks,

I will ring cast engineering tommorrow and give Jim these measurments that 500 grns has provided assumming those interested are are happy with what has been suggested. I will also ask those questions regarding the gas checks in my phone call tommorow.

If those who are contributing could e-mail me there names and I will give Jim the list of contributers a couple of days after tommorrows call to give more people a chance to join in or contribute further ideas.

He accepts credit card payment and when each member interested has contributed there portion of the $195.00 Aus he can make the cutter. At this time those persons interested can also pay the $100 Aus for there own mold and shipping costs etc. I will post and e-mail his phone number and web address when we finalise everything.

So far we have myself and my mate, Rune and 500gr 4 people@$48.75Aus per person. Can we get a few more takers.

I reckon this will be worthwhile and we all should have a bit of fun shooting 1200 grainers.

Regards PC

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PC,

Do the Amerians know that $1Aus is about 52cUS, so it halves the numbers.

Mike

I assume when they pay by card and Jim at Hard Cast engineering charges there card, the Company whom they have there card through will convert the Aus$ purchase to US$.

It will certainly work out cheaper for them than myself and Andrew.

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Have spoken to cast engineering this morning and here is what Jim said we need to provide him with.

A sketch which contains the following:

Dimensions

OAL of the Cartridge

Position of Crimp groove in relation to distance of crimp groove to nose.

Actual diameter as cast.

Length of driving band infront of crimp groove.

He is not aware of anyone who manufactures gas checks, therefore we probably require a mould that does not require them.

He also agreed the hemispherical round nose would probably work best for hunting and feeding.

I wonder were they got there 1200gr projectiles that they used for the reloading data for the .585 Nyatti on this sight.?

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PC, maybe Saeed could ask Roy Vincent where he got his 1200 grain mold, as Roy developed the data you see on the site.

I don not mean to take business away from the Australian mold maker, but if I were to draw up the proposed bullet it would be just a guess. If anyone else has more confidence in his bullet designing abilities, I welcome him to step forward and give this a try.

[This message has been edited by 500grains (edited 01-31-2002).]

PC,

On the "dollar" issue it is not as bad for us as you might think.

We get more $$$.

Sometime ago with another member of the site, we went through how many hours someone in different jobs would have to work to buy a Model 70. Not much too much difference, especially if you take off the import duty we have to pay.

If you move it to Sako, where bith countrie are paying duty and import costs, then if anything we do not have to work as many hours as the Americans.

Hope that cheered you up some for the day

Mike

That might be a good idea to ask Saeed about were that mould came from.

That has cheered me Mike I just assumed that everything cost us double.

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OK, since we have no takers on the bullet design, I will give it a shot.

Distance from cannelure (crimp groove) to front of bullet nose: 0.680

Bullet nose shape: hemispherical ahead of cylindrical shank that is 0.550 diameter (I am trying to approximate a Barnes monolithic solid shape for good feeding).

OAL of cartridge: 3.48" (2.8" plus 0.68")

Actual diameter as case: 0.5850"

Length of driving band in front of crimp groove: I have no idea.

Flat base design.

Bullet weight: 1200 grains.

I wonder if we should make it a hollow point?

Surely If we give jim these figures 500 gr has provided he will be able to draw the sketch himself.

Just to get this down pat .585 Nyatti rifles shoot .577 projectiles correct?

I definitely like the idea of a hollow point whats the consensus on that from others?

It would really be handy if we could get a bit of infromation in regards to the mould used by this website for there .585 development.

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585 nyati is 577 bore x 585 groove, just like the 577 nitro express.

500 gr I have e-mailed Saeed in the hope he might be able to provide some data on the design of the 1200 gr bulett they used for the reloading infromation (.585 Nyatti) on this sight.

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I think we have our sign-up list for the mold. PC, let's see what your moldmaker thinks of the proposed dimensions. Tell us where and when to send money. Thanks.

I will ring Jim Today and give him these dimensions and ask him if he can draw the sketch. I am no artist. Then tonight I will post his e-mail address, PH. Number & Postal adress etc. I and my mate will ring Jim and pay our portion of the cutter by credit card, and Rune and your self (500 gr) can do like wise (he accepts credit card payment)and pay for your moulds to then if you choose. This method saves sending money to me personally. I will tell Jim that there are four of us, he now thinks the cutter may be slightly dearer he said will have to see and was not sure if it would be dearer or not. I do not see why it should be, moulds will still be $100.00 Aus.

I'll post tonight with the rest of the deatils.

Regards PC

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Spoke to Jim today and gave him the measurements and after some rough calculations after taking in the OAL of the cartridge here is the break down.

3.48" - 2.8" = .68

add the neck length .602 = 1.282.

Therefore our projectile to feed can not be grater than 1.282 " according to Jim.

His current 750 gr bullett measures 1.185" this leaves us very little length to play with he did some rough estimates that he could get an 850 to 900 gr out possibly.

To do this he said he really needs the measurements or an actual projectile that was used for the load developemnt in the .585 Nyatti. I have e-mailed Saeed in relation to this and I have not heard back. Maybe someone else here could e-mail him and see if we can obtain a 1200 gr projectile.

The other idea I had would be to settle for a 900 grainer and ask woodleigh to give us the dimensions of there .577 900 gr bullett and build a mould for exactly the same bullett as the 900 gr woodleigh. It would give us cheap 900 gr projectiles.

What do you guys think on that.

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[This message has been edited by PC (edited 02-04-2002).]

So what ever happened to the .585" cast bullet plan? I might be interested.

Cast engineering would be to difficult a road to travel.

But NEI in America will make you a mould for an 1150 grain projectile for $90 US. 500 grains has ordered one. There is a 9 week wait on the mould however.

When my .585 is finished I am going to purchase one.

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When the mold comes I will let you know how it works out.

By the way, I confirmed with Mr. Roy Vincent that it is the same mold he used to cast his .585 lead bullets for which there is loading data on this site.