Convert Browning Safari to .458 Lott?

05 April 2003, 08:44

OK, managed to get my hands on a Belgian Browning Safari in .458 WM.

I think the gun is a very early edition (only one crossbar in the stock, as opposed to my .375 H&H, which has two). A 4 digit serial number, but haven't been able to find any links to a Browning site that might help me age it.

It's in good shape, but certainly not mint. From the looks of it, it spent a lot of time sitting on someone's shelf, (more dust, dried oil and handling wear than actual field use).

I'm wondering whether it's possible to convert to .458 Lott, just by re-working the magazine, and reaming it, as opposed to rebuilding it entirely. I'm not interested in a custom rifle built off the action, just in revamping the original rifle.

Or, should I just leave it original?

05 April 2003, 08:51

Robgunbuilder

On my Browning Safari grade( Not a salt wood gun), I pulled the barrel ( please don't just use a hand reamer) and reamed it to 458 Lott. The mag box and follower were replaced and the feed ramp modified for proper feeding. A second recoil lug was added to the barrel and I then inletted the stock for the second lug and steelbeeded the second lug mortise ( first) then the action lug and tang. Don't consider this conversion even for a moment without the second barrel mounted lug.-Rob

05 April 2003, 09:45

Brian M

I collect these rifles.

I suggest you either keep it in 458 Winny or sell it.They are rather light for caliber and they'll kick the bejesus out of you as a 458 Winchester,let alone as a Lott.

I'd never dream of rechambering my 1972 vintage 458.With 500s at 2050 FPS,it dishes out about all the punishment I can stand.

Brian.

05 April 2003, 11:16

<JBelk>

Brian M---

I'm with you!! Why take a snot slinger and then piss it off so it'll hurt you worse!!

The Lott conversion removes too much metal from the feed ramp, if you do it like the Brownings are. It's the only weakness in the FN rifles, IMO. (And having an ugly grip section, but that's appearance.) [Smile]

05 April 2003, 18:29

Brian M

Jack,
Amen!Their brutal as is!

Brian.

07 April 2003, 15:09

Socrates

Been looking at a BFN Safari for a LONG time.
What does it weigh? 7-8 pounds? NICE action.
Is it just the weight of the rifle, stock design, or the non-existent stock recoil that makes this puppy kick so much?
s

08 April 2003, 05:36

WannabeBwana

Thanks for the input, all. I think I'll leave it as is.

RGB, how can I tell if it's one of those salt wood stocks?

Can anyone lead me to a site where I can date this gun? I've tried the Browning site, and the Browning Collectors Association, but no luck. The serial number is L3XX

Socrates, I haven't had the pleasure of firing it yet (spring snowstorms the last while. Calling for another tonight). I think it's the very light for caliber barrel on it. The barrel looks lighter than my .375, though I haven't measured them. The action is VERY nice.

Mine has a Browning recoil pad. I'm assuming it's a factory option.

08 April 2003, 06:20

Robgunbuilder

Take the action out of the stock and look for RUST! The salt wood guns corroded the actions pretty thoroughly where there was wood contact. These Browning Safari's are pretty easy to find at Gun shows and are not terribly collectable. Personally, I took off the original pad and installed two mercury recoil reducers and a tripple X F990 pad the recoil is not a problem with this modification in the Lott. It will balance just under the front action ring this way!
There has been alot written about problems with the FN actions in .375 length cartridges because people cut up into the lower lug too much to get them to feed. However, if you use a mill and cut the metal from the rear of the action as much as possible, including modifying the bolt stop, very little metal will need to be removed from the ramp. Mine has shown no problems at all and I look pretty carefully.-Rob

08 April 2003, 13:13

Brian M

Fischer,
Oh man......you've got what's either a late 1959 or an early 1960 gun.That's first year production and those are the most desireable of all Safari Grades.It won't have salt wood unless it was restocked,and that explains why it only has one recoil lug.

I STRONGLY suggest you don't mess with this rifle.Early production 458s as you have are VERY desired by Browning collectors because they are almost non-existent.They didn't really start pumping out 458s until they moved to the push feed action in 1967.

Either leave it as is or sell it to someone who will.Chopping up that rifle is akin to tapping a mint Winchester 1873 for a scope.

They kick hard because they're about 3 pounds too light for caliber.I've had four of them.The heaviest is the one I now own,which weights right at 9 pounds scoped.Jack Belk has it in his shop right now for a bed job to make sure it doesn't jump out of the stock.The lightest one I had weighted 6 3/4 pounds.I fired exactly one round from it,and that was enough.

Brian.

[ 04-08-2003, 04:15: Message edited by: Brian M ]

09 April 2003, 13:02

Atkinson

Since I am going to get the snot kicked out of me anyway, I would do it...The 458 Lott is the better round by far and has none of the bad reputation that the 458 has earned...It will work fine in the Browning...Half of the Mausers and Winchester 458's in Africa are simply 458 win. reamed out..It is the dark continents no. 1 conversion....All Whitworth are openned up in front as are most FN's and they have held up well.

10 April 2003, 04:21

WannabeBwana

Thanks again, for all your responses.

Brian, I roughly weighed it, and it looks like it's right around 7 lbs, without a scope. Yikes!! [Eek!]

For the price I got if for, I know I could double my money, if I'm prepared to wait long enough. However, I really don't have any plans to sell it.

I still haven't fired it, but have some stiff 400 gr. loads that I had made up for moose hunting with my Ruger. I'll make the final decision after I put a few 500 gr. through it, but I've already decided that when I go to Africa, my .375 will be my primary gun, since plains game will likely be all I can afford the first time around. So, at this point, the Lott would be unnecessary.

10 April 2003, 14:46

Brian M

Fisher,
If you want to keep it and shoot it,I would advise to very simply add a second recoil lug and and bed it well-Safari 458s have a habit of cracking at the tang,espically one luggers.

She'll probably only feed 500s-I know that's all mine feeds,as that's the only thing they were made to feed for (Browning didn't give a damn if you wanted to shoot 350s [Razz]

),but man,she'll be ACCURATE as all get out if you work up a load for it.If you do your job behind the gun,she'll shoot as good as a varmint rifle with good loads.I know mine will.

Brian.

13 April 2003, 13:23

bigbore416

if a 458 winnie mag is good enough for someone like harry selby who has guided and hunted dangerous game in africa for 50 yrs. then it should be good enough for you provided you can shoot it well enough in a clutch! keep it the way it is and shoot fresh ammo.

25 April 2003, 04:02

WannabeBwana

FYI, I took this gun out the other day, and fired it for the first time. As I said, I had some hot 400 gr. Speers that I had worked up as a moose load last fall.

Brian M, you're right!!! It kicked the bejeezus outta me, even with the 400 grainer!!! Sure got my attention!

I only shot it standing, just to get a feel for the gun. I was happy! [Big Grin]

But, I'll make sure I've got a sissy pad handy when I put it on the bench to work up a load.

BTW, the 400 gr. Speers fed perfectly and should work great for moose this fall. Rather than 500 gr. though, I'm more leaning toward the 450 gr. Barnes for African use, in order to make more efficient use of the "small" case. [Wink]

25 April 2003, 06:35

<JOHAN>

quote:
Originally posted by bigbore416:
if a 458 winnie mag is good enough for someone like harry selby who has guided and hunted dangerous game in africa for 50 yrs. then it should be good enough for you provided you can shoot it well enough in a clutch! keep it the way it is and shoot fresh ammo.

Sorry, but if I'm not completly wrong the well know Harry Selby used a 416 Rigby in a standard 98 mauser military action. I guess he bought it after his double rifle got damaged [Roll Eyes]

/ JOHAN

25 April 2003, 06:48

nextjoe

quote:
Originally posted by JOHAN:

quote:
Originally posted by bigbore416:
if a 458 winnie mag is good enough for someone like harry selby who has guided and hunted dangerous game in africa for 50 yrs. then it should be good enough for you provided you can shoot it well enough in a clutch! keep it the way it is and shoot fresh ammo.
Sorry, but if I'm not completly wrong the well know Harry Selby used a 416 Rigby in a standard 98 mauser military action. I guess he bought it after his double rifle got damaged

/ JOHAN

Johan, you're absolutely right.. But.. [Big Grin]

Mr. Selby eventually wore out the barrel of his Rigby and sent it back to be rebarrelled. While it was away, he switched to a Post-64 Winchester Model 70 in .458 Win Mag, which, to the best of my knowledge, he still uses.

Rigby took several years to rebarrel his rifle, and he found the .458 worked so well that he saw no need to switch back to his old Rigby. He sold it a few years ago to an American.

As I recall, he only uses his own handloads in the .458 and takes apart and reloads his unused ammo every season, to keep the powder from caking.

His original .416 Rigby has been featured in articles in both "Rifle" magazine and "The American Rifleman" in the past few years. Beautiful old gun, and you can't beat its history!

Best,
Joe

25 April 2003, 07:02

Atkinson

Just for the record, Harry Selby used a 416 Rigby for the most part, and a 375 to a lesser extent, I never knew him to use a 458, but thats not too say he didn't at some time in his life....

His son Mark, Tanzania Game Trackers, uses a 450-400 double rifle give to him by his Godfather, Robert Ruark...

25 April 2003, 07:45

<D`Arcy Echols>

Ray is correct about Selby's 416. I installed a Jasper Rabourn 3 position on the bolt a few years before he sold it.

25 April 2003, 08:19

nextjoe

quote:
Originally posted by Atkinson:
Just for the record, Harry Selby used a 416 Rigby for the most part, and a 375 to a lesser extent, I never knew him to use a 458, but thats not too say he didn't at some time in his life....

His son Mark, Tanzania Game Trackers, uses a 450-400 double rifle give to him by his Godfather, Robert Ruark...

Ray (and everyone else),

I went back and found the Rifle article. It's in the November 2000 issue, "Harry Selby's .416 Rigby" by Layne Simpson. My earlier post was correct. The man who bought it is named Frank Lyon. It's a beautiful old gun.

Interestingly, the pictures in the article show a standard Mauser wing safety instead of the safety Mr. Echols mentioned. Perhaps Mr. Lyon switched the safeties. [Confused]

Best,
Joe

25 April 2003, 08:21

nextjoe

One other interesting point about the rifle is that it has a wide trigger shoe fitted. Kind of unusual.

Best,
Joe

25 April 2003, 10:03

<D`Arcy Echols>

Joe I have always wondered what happened to that safety myself. Perhaps Harry kept it for another rifle. I got to have lunches and dinner with him at the last SCI conventioned that he attended and it sounded like he was quite the gun nut and tried an awful lot of different calibers, bullets etc. This was awhile ago, perhaps 6 or 7 years maybe longer. Lord I'm getting old and senile. Like Ray!!!

25 April 2003, 10:06

<JOHAN>

quote:
Originally posted by D`Arcy Echols:
Ray is correct about Selby's 416. I installed a Jasper Rabourn 3 position on the bolt a few years before he sold it.

D'Arcy

I have heard and read about this rabourn safety quite alot but never seen one?

What is the address to Jasper Rabourn?

/ JOHAN