400 grain Speer load for .458 Lott Quickload

05 June 2020, 04:33

Forrest Halley

Hello All,
I am a recent Shanghai from AH. There is a lot of expertise over here which I hope to tap.
So I have this really great rifle that I struggle with: a Ruger No. 1 in .458 Lott. So I am toying with a 400 grain load in order to get in more practice with the rifle. I have a lot of W748 and would like to use that. I have tried 80.0 grains loaded to the cannelure. It was very accurate and shot well to the fixed sights, but the projectile was engaging the rifling which is a shocker as it's lighter than the 500 grain projectiles I was using. I had a bullet pulling event today which really inconvenienced me for a moment. So I shortened the OAL to the forward crimp groove. Ammo now passes the plunk test with flying colors. I am curious where I stand with pressure and combustion.
Case length is 2.800"
Projectiles are ≈0.970"
COAL is 3.250"
Thank you for your time.

06 June 2020, 20:25

MickinColo

I can't remember what barrel length the No. 1 Lott has but figuring a 24” barrel QL shows a 98.57% burn rate. 46,170 psi (62,366 P-max for the Lott). 2381 fps and 5,033 ft-lbs.

07 June 2020, 17:58

Forrest Halley

quote:
Originally posted by MickinColo:
I can't remember what barrel length the No. 1 Lott has but figuring a 24” barrel QL shows a 98.57% burn rate. 46,170 psi (62,366 P-max for the Lott). 2381 fps and 5,033 ft-lbs.

Thank you for your help! Can you post the chart to max loading?

07 June 2020, 21:03

MickinColo

 Cartridge          : .458 Lott
Bullet             : .458, 400, Speer FN
Useable Case Capaci: 88.340 grain H2O = 5.736 cm³
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 3.250 inch = 82.55 mm
Barrel Length      : 24.0 inch = 609.6 mm
Powder             : Winchester 748

Predicted data by increasing and decreasing the given charge,
incremented in steps of 2.0% of nominal charge.
CAUTION: Figures exceed maximum and minimum recommended loads !

Step    Fill. Charge   Vel.  Energy   Pmax   Pmuz  Prop.Burnt B_Time
 %       %    Grains   fps   ft.lbs    psi    psi      %        ms

-20.0   73    64.00   1926    3295   25227   5054     90.3    1.676
-18.0   75    65.60   1972    3453   26789   5211     91.4    1.633
-16.0   77    67.20   2017    3615   28449   5363     92.5    1.591
-14.0   79    68.80   2063    3781   30212   5511     93.5    1.551
-12.0   80    70.40   2109    3950   32087   5652     94.5    1.511
-10.0   82    72.00   2154    4123   34080   5788     95.3    1.473
-08.0   84    73.60   2200    4299   36204   5917     96.1    1.435
-06.0   86    75.20   2245    4478   38463   6039     96.9    1.398
-04.0   88    76.80   2291    4660   40870   6154     97.5    1.360
-02.0   89    78.40   2336    4845   43437   6260     98.1    1.324
+00.0   91    80.00   2381    5033   46174   6359     98.6    1.289
+02.0   93    81.60   2425    5224   49100   6448     99.0    1.255
+04.0   95    83.20   2470    5418   52226   6529     99.4    1.223
+06.0   97    84.80   2514    5613   55570   6600     99.6    1.191  ! Near Maximum !
+08.0   99    86.40   2558    5811   59150   6662     99.8    1.160  ! Near Maximum !
+10.0  100    88.00   2602    6012   62990   6713     99.9    1.131  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!

Results caused by ± 10% powder lot-to-lot burning rate variation using nominal charge
Data for burning rate increased by 10% relative to nominal value:
+Ba     91    80.00   2488    5498   55938   6144    100.0    1.198  ! Near Maximum !
Data for burning rate decreased by 10% relative to nominal value:
-Ba     91    80.00   2232    4425   37610   6222     92.7    1.407

07 June 2020, 22:25

MARK H. YOUNG

The 400 Speer is a good practice bullet in the Lott but it's very soft and designed for 45-70 velocities. Don't use it on game unless you throttle it way back.

Mark

08 June 2020, 01:56

Forrest Halley

quote:
Originally posted by MARK H. YOUNG:
The 400 Speer is a good practice bullet in the Lott but it's very soft and designed for 45-70 velocities. Don't use it on game unless you throttle it way back.

Mark

Thank you MickinColo! I appreciate knowing what I am working with.

Hello Mark,
I don't intend to use this bullet for game except maybe varmints unlucky enough to come across me and my big gun. My interest was more along where the max lies to see just what I had for wiggle room for turning up the volume in practice.

08 June 2020, 18:47

crshelton

Hj Forrest,
Welcome aboard! Good to see you getting some results.

19 June 2020, 18:09

4sixteen

For reduced load Blue Dot and 400gr Speer works well in my 458 Lott.

19 June 2020, 21:17

LHeym500

quote:
Originally posted by MickinColo:
I can't remember what barrel length the No. 1 Lott has but figuring a 24” barrel QL shows a 98.57% burn rate. 46,170 psi (62,366 P-max for the Lott). 2381 fps and 5,033 ft-lbs.

Ruger No 1 458 Tropical was listed with a 24 inch barrel.

20 June 2020, 13:01

The Maz

Win 748 is way too slow burning of a powder for 400 grain bullets in the Lott. So, you can't actually overload it. It will work, but is nowhere near the best powder for the job.

21 June 2020, 17:12

458PHCAPSTICK

Try some 5744 powder loads/data.
Good luck and hope this helps

28 June 2020, 20:06

Atkinson

That in fact is a very mild load, and your shooting a very strong actioned rifle. Your rifle would be fine even with a 55,000 PSI or more..If you want 2300 with a 500 gr. bullet, try IMR-4320, and your elephant ready and Aspirin bound.....Welcome aboard.

18 July 2020, 00:40

Forrest Halley

Many thanks for the hearty welcome!

I am interested in mainly practice and learning to use the rifle effectively. I have a long way to go toward feeling comfortable. I am hoping the 400's get me there, because the 500's are something to behold.

Blue Dot reduced loads sound interesting. They would still be loud and mighty sounding, but not so bad. Do you have a suggestion where to start?
I am envious of the long loaded 400's I don't think I can do that. My rifle has a short throat and they stick upon live round extraction.

I realize the 748 might not be the best, but I have a lot of it so it will be the load I use for a while. It meters well and that matters most to me. I have a really great load for a 500 grain bullet with H4895. It's really accurate and powerful.

18 July 2020, 01:27

4sixteen

Blue Dot / 400gr load adaptation of 458 WM Lyman Cast Bullet Handbook data.

Another reduced load developed using slower burn rate powder and Hornady 500gr DGX at 1750 fps muzzle speed. Accuracy not too bad. 458 Lott load to stomp anything around here.

18 July 2020, 02:02

crshelton

Forrest,
I am not a gunsmith, but would a chamber reamer give you a little more room out front for those 400 grain Speers?

It worked wonders for my .405 WCF chamber to allow the use of 400 grain Woodies crimped at the cannelure. One pleasant surprise was a reduction of peak chamber pressure for all loads with no apparent effect on accuracy or velocity.

Maybe DPCD can comment on this, as he has done a .458 or two.

18 July 2020, 02:35

Fury01

Blue Dot loads are not loud and mighty sounding. Can shoot them with common ear plugs quite safely. One of the benefits of a small load of fast powder is low noise. The risk is double loading; must pay attention to that.
Your question in the signature line; I never felt under equipped with 15 rounds of 5.56 unless I had a 16 person problem.

Same thing on the .375 for me as a rule of thumb, as long as the target supply doesn't exceed the ammo count; good to go sir. More is always better but better is not always possible.