Hallo,

RIP told me to post that story here......

one day a guy called me and told me that he has a custom made 98mag-mauser in 416Rigby and that he wanted to have something smaller with the same Boltface....."Can you do this....i`ll pay"
(??? Is the pope a catolik???)
"Ok, what you like to have???"
"Don´t know exactly.....smaler...?"
.375" mayby...?
Yes....do you have an idea...??
Yes mayby, i´ll call ya back......
That was in 2000

That was the "starting-point" to create a .375-.338Lapua.
( If you think that designing a new cartridge is a plain-vanilla thing, than try to do this in germany......that will be the day you realy know what a pain in the a.. is REALY )

So, after doing the paperwork,design-drawings of reamers next step is buing a test-barrel to do proof-house testing and pressure measuring.
Finaly get a set of custom-made dies and start
load-development.

Results :

25,5" BBL
Federal 215 M Primers

300grs. Swift A-Frame
COL 3,464"
94grs of VV N-560
2809fps 63030psi

300grs Hornady RN #3720
COL 3,464"
96grs VV N-160
2816fps 62010psi

same Hornady
same COL
98grs VV N-160
2910fps 66600psi MAX LOAD !!!!

same Hornady
same COL
94grs. VV N-560
2685fps 50970psi starting load.....

What i like most, is that it is a "easy" to make round.......
just neck the .338 up to .375, load an have fun.......

Best

2RECON

Sorry for my bad english

PS. Have some pics of that round and dies, but can´t post it....some help?

Email the pictures to me at rkmojo@aol.com I will see that they are posted

2RECON,
It is about time you showed up here with your creation! Thanks. Excellent to have some pressure data.

I started dreaming of this cartridge myself in 2002. In February 2003 I finally found a reference to the 9.5x69mm (or .375 Tornado or 9.5mm Tornado or .375/.338 Lapua Mag.) in a publication from January 2003, I guess. Thanks to Ed (forum member aka hockeypuck) at: www.aement.com

Accuload III has a tabulation of cartridges that lists the .375 Tornado.

Finally in Mid 2005 I had my own ".375/.338 Lapua Mag."

Mine is built on a CZ 550 Magnum with 3.8" magazine box, ArmTec synthetic stock made in RSA (acquired from Nickudu), and a Dan Lilja barrel: 12" twist, stainless fluted No.6 contour that is 25.75" long. Muzzle diameter is 0.765".

It was chambered with a Dave Kiff .338 Lapua Mag. reamer with removable pilot and a Dave Manson neck and throat reamer that duplicates the .375 Weatherby throat:
.3755" freebore diameter
.3700" freebore length
1.5 degree leade

This is my starting load for that rifle:
60 degrees F
.338 Lapua Mag. brass by Lapua
Federal GM215M primer
H4831SC 96.0 grains
300-grain Sierra GameKing
COL = 3.630"
MV in fps 15 feet from muzzle (5 shots):
2716
2736
2718
2732
2730
ave = 2727.4 fps
Extreme Spread = 20 fps
StdDev = 8 fps
100 yard group size:
3-shot: .566"
5-shot: .718"

As you see, I need to find a more accurate load by working up from here.

I'll get some mileage out of this thread.
If you want me to post anything picture-wise, I would be happy to, as Rusty.

Here is a pic of some of my brass.
.375/.338 Lapua Mag. is second from right:

Various 300-grain bullets seated to no more than 3.800" long.
That is a Walterhog copy made by Fritz454 on the far right.

My research before learning of 2RECON, turned up this firm as a source of Mauser rifles chambered in .375 Tornado: Waffen Jung GMBH

www.waffenjung.de

He has confirmed this in a PM. Also I am told that reloading dies and reamers can be had from:

www.triebel-guntools.de

Ask for .375 Brandt dies and reamer?

Brass from Horneber: www.huelsen-horneber.de

Here is a .375 Tornado rifle as made by Waffen Jung GMBH, as a take-down or not, very nice. Looks like a lively handler too:

From Accuload III:

Reference:

Regenstreif, Phillipe (2003).
"A New German Sporting Caliber."
_Cartridge Researcher, The_, 452, 11.

Narrative:

9.5x69mm Tornado

Developed by Waffen JUNG G.m.b.H. of Germany, the 9.5x69mm Tornado is very similar to the .338 Lapua. With the exception of a random couple of thousandths here and there, the Tornado is the .338 Lapua necked up to handle the 9.5 mm bullet.

Designed specifically for African Big Game, it comes in a new rifle, the Tornado Magnum Classic, which sports a Mauser 98 action. With an advertised 2808 fps pushing a 300 gr bullet, it develops 5,251 ft. lbs at the muzzle. It should fill its role easily.

If .375 Tornado brass is available, then this one needs to be named the ".395 Tornado."
Also known as the 10.03x69mm Tornado:

Interesting drop box set up on the Tornado.

2RECON,
Did Horneber make the XM-2 version of the .408 CheyTac or just the XM-1? "Experimental Model?"

Changing a ".375 Tornado" headstamp to ".395 Tornado" would be a breeze.

I can also use the ".338 Lapua Mag." headstamp to easily alter to ".398 Lapua Mag."

quote:

Originally posted by Macifej:
Interesting drop box set up on the Tornado.

BearHead,
Jawohl! Let's see if we can get the red x to turn into a picture.

The .375 Tornado and .338 Lapua Mag. have the same case taper as the .416 Rigby. Same as for the .395 Tornado and the .395 Tatanka also.

I've tried a couple times.

Take a look at one of my favorites while I work on that drop box photo.

This is from the 250 year old firm of Hambrusch in Ferlach (Austria).

This nifty little crate comes with a take down trio .338 Lapua, .416 Rigby, & 600 N.E. plus ammo and two scopes.

Holy cow! Ferlach has it covered!
Continuing with the proprietary .375 Tornado in the Tornado Magnum Classic from Waffen Jung G.m.b.H.:

Looks like the Drop Box photos are part of a "Frames" page layout so no copying.

Interesting, the Waffen Jung G.m.b.H guys are from the Cologne area and not Waaaaaay south in the Suhl region where most of the "German" firms are located.

quote:

Originally posted by Macifej:

Wow!

The way the box is designed, it looks a lot like a WWII BAR.

Very nice work. What does everyone think of all this color case hardening of bolt guns? No one ever made them that way back in the day. Not sure if it's contrived looking or what to think.

quote:

Originally posted by Macifej:
Very nice work. What does everyone think of all this color case hardening of bolt guns? No one ever made them that way back in the day. Not sure if it's contrived looking or what to think.

Gun-Pornography! Free speech! I like it a lot!
Most beautiful bolt rifle I have ever seen. And since it is German instead of English, I could shoot it with pinky fingers flexed instead of extended.

Ja! Das ist mein Freund zutreffend. Ein Liter von Ratzeputz für jeder gefallen!

Ist hier etwas Gewehrpornographie für dich!

WOW. RIP, gun porn is right! What a beaut. (whistle, panting, involuntary foot tapping...)

Although, this looks like it might bite a little if one actually used that rifle...

quote:

Originally posted by RIP:

Cheers,
Canuck

ps: saw macifej's gun porn AFTER typing the above...that is literal gun porn.

Here's some over the top engraving!

This is the Hambrusch 700 NE "saurian" Rifle.

Hey Hey Hey..Gent´s....

sorry to create those reactions.....
I´ve send the pic´s to RUSTY....Thanks again!!

To make some things a bit clear........

- the dies :
Triebel gun-tools list them as .375 BRANDT
( thats the name of the guy i´ve made it first)
Yes, expencive stuff, like everything "custom-made".....specialy here in germany....or would you belive that you have to spend 110$ for a box of 100 ea. 210 Berger VLD`s )

- horneber brass...
Yes RIP, you are right, they´ve made the first (XM-1) cases for the 408 Chey-Tac
I told J.D.Taylor to contact them, because they are specialiced in those "old-classic" Cases...

- Name "9,5 Tornado".......
I met Theo Jung at the IWA-Fair to talk about that Round....we decided to name it 9,5 (Metric)
TORNADO ( His Trademark) and he showd me a sample of a (5Round) Ammo-box specialy designed for it........
For reasons i can´t understand that whole project came to rest....
5 frinds of Mr.BRANDT had rifles made ( mostly CZ-ones ) and use them with big sucsess

- PRESSURE

one of the things i like most of the .338 Lapua Case is that it is TOUGH !!!!
OK, makes it a bit different to neckdown, but you can work EASILY with pressures up to 68000psi ( the max pressure of my 7,62 UKM)

Best

2RECON

2RECON,
No apologies needed. Great reactions. That is the way we play here.

Is the 7.62 UKM a short-necked .300 Lapua Mag.?

If Rusty doesn't post them soon, please send the pictures to me at: www.kyakerab@hotmail.com

For the 9.5 Tornado, I noticed at AccuLoad III that they list:
neck-1 diameter = .4070" (neck-shoulder junction)
and
neck-2 diameter = .4020" (case mouth)

Is this how you designed it or are they just measuring a necked-up .338 Lapua Mag. with a donut?

When I neck up .338 Lapua Mag. to .375 I get the "dreaded donut" where the neck-shoulder junction of the .338 Lapua Mag. used to be.

I seat a 300-grain Sierra GameKing so the boat tail abutts against the donut, and then fire form. Then I inside-neck ream the brass and I am ready for any bullet.

My .375 Weatherby-style throat (.3700" long freebore, parallel-sided) allows me to do this with no problems. The load I listed above is my fire-forming load and is about 1/2 MOA for 3 shots.

T think I figured it out here RIP!

A few posts back I odered a liter of RatzePutz for everyone. RatzePutz (loosely translates to "Rat Cleaner")is a strong NORTH German (Prussian) Liquor. I bet our friend Herr RECON is from down south where they've never heard of the stuff. He probably thinks I ordered you all to drink a liter of rat poison! COOOOOL!!!

Macifej,
RatzePutz sounds like a good table sauce.
Thanks for the excuse to post again.

Anybody wanna see an ugly 9.5 Tornado rifle?

How many of those Bison rifles are you guys building? .395 Tatanka, 40-07, 9.5 Tornado, 399 RatzePutz Magnum! You know I'm gonna have to get one of those things too!

- RIP :

the 7,62UKM is a shortened and necked down .338LM....30Cal getting 3200fps using 190grs SMK´s.....

- Macifej:

The "original" speach is :

Nach jedem Bumms nach jedem Knall ein Ratzeputz von Reinmetall..

You should mayby try one of those farmer`s made Obstlers from the Lake of Konstanz,......

Best

2RECON

quote:

Originally posted by Macifej:
How many of those Bison rifles are you guys building? .395 Tatanka, 40-07, 9.5 Tornado, 399 RatzePutz Magnum! You know I'm gonna have to get one of those things too!

Macifej,
".395 Tatanka" is THE "Forty-Ought-Seven," the one and only rifle in .395 caliber in the world so far.

The ".398 Lapua Mag." is under construction and cannot ne renamed "399 RatzePutz," but there is going to be a ".395 Ruger Max" which is slightly alliterative to your choice.

I doubt Max would want to change that one to "399 Ratzeputz."

I gotta quit ratzeputz-ing and go form some 40-07 brass, and chronograph some squirrel loads with the cast bullets.

From designer 2RECON, the 9.5 Tornado and a .338 Lapua Mag.:

The 9.5 Tornado dies (note large thread size ???) by Triebel, aka .375 Brandt, they look to be some precision equipment: