FN Mauser 500 Bateleur, and Ruger No. 1 400 Bateleur

31 May 2014, 07:25

capoward

All rightee let’s resurrect this thread also… And compare our commercial FN M98 Mauser builds…

1st up Ron’s ---

quote:
Originally posted by RIP:
8 pounds 11 ounces as pictured.
It will be a 10-pounder field ready.
I would not want it any heavier.
24" barrel, 1:12" twist. Bridget B. Mauser is no safe queen.
OK, maybe she is a redneck girl.
Gunsmith Rusty McGee and I do hail from Kentucky.

And then mine --- I haven’t weighed it yet – both have 21.5” barrels with 3-groove 1:9” twist.

quote:
Here’s a full-length shot but photo buggers the look as the rifles are only 1” difference in overall length:

Closer look in the action area:

Yep, 3-position left hand safeties by Satterlee:

And the Weibe 4MJ magazine works perfectly ---

quote:
Top view of the .500 caliber rifle with three 12.7x68 Magnum cartridges in the magazine:

Top view of the .500 caliber rifle thumbing 4th round into the magazine:

Top view of the .500 caliber rifle with bolt picking up 4th round for chambering:

As can be seen, there is glass work needed to better fit the barreled actions to the stocks in both rifles. Metalwork finish also needed. Currently I’m still noodling over the metalwork finish (leaning towards Cerakote) and what finish (paint scheme) I’ll have applied to the synthetic stocks.

31 May 2014, 08:51

RIP

Very nice, Jim.
Amazing that the flush bottom metal by Wiebe has so much internal capacity on both the .423/.338LM and the .500/.338LM aka 12.7x68 Magnum 49-10, aka 50 Bateleur.

As can be seen on my 500 Bateleur (.510/.338LM), "glass work is needed" also,
for a different reason, to fit my protruding bottom metal (Wiebe for 500 Jeffery), to turn it into a drop-belly stock.
Same stock as yours.
Mine would take a lot of Bondo and a paint job.
That will probably never happen.

31 May 2014, 10:41

capoward

It is amazing how well that trapezoid shape works. The lighting in our house is the pits – partial reason for the “dullness” of the photos. If I can finds some portable lights around here I’ll pull the bottom metal from each rifle and take photos from above and below. Should show the trapezoid shape as well as the difference in the inside machining Steve did on the boxes.

By the way, did you notice the difference in the trigger guard shape between your bottom metal and mine?

03 June 2014, 01:15

RIP

quote:
Originally posted by capoward:

By the way, did you notice the difference in the trigger guard shape between your bottom metal and mine?

Yes, I did, Jim, and yours is prettier.
Of course beauty is easier for yours when the floorplate level is not half way down to the bottom of the trigger guard.

Oh, yeah, scratch the idea of a Winchester M70 400 Bald Eagle. No 50 bateleur will be molested.
Both of those rifles are just too good to rebarrel. "400 Bald Eagle" now refers to a shortened .408 Chey-Tac,
and "400 Bateleur" cartridge name is now for the .408/.338 Lapua Magnum 2.700" Un-improved.

The 400 Bateleur will have to be a CZ 550 Magnum, to take advantage of the .408 long-nosed bullets in a +3.8" box ...
or a Ruger No. 1 single-stuffer.
Progress!

What Buffalo Bill could have done with one of those ... "Last of the Great Scouts."

03 June 2014, 04:04

capoward

I finally got around to measuring up the Wiebe 4MJ bottom metal used on my commercial FN M98 Mauser build… The 4MJ bottom metal is CNC machined from a solid block of metal; the magazine is integral rather than separate, the magazine is trapezoid shaped inside, and it designed to hold 4-404 Jeffery cartridges within the magazine. Rather interesting how the box is laid out.

The following are the internal machined dimensions allowing it to hold 3-12.7x68 Magnum cartridges within the magazine with room to ‘thumb’ a 4th round down to slip under the extractor when chambering...

So without further ado, here are the dimensions and photographs of the 4MJ bottom metal as modified to work with the .338 Lapua Magnum derivative 12.7x68 Magnum cartridge – – –

Magazine Dimensions:
Height – Outside of the magazine box – floorplate moved out of way:
Front = 1.140”
Rear = 1.340”
Length of Box:
Top = 3.607”
Bottom = 3.610”
Width inside box, at top of the box:
Front = 0.882"
Middle (body to neck cut) = 0.937”
Rear = 1.006"
Width inside box, at bottom of the box:
Front = 0.882"
Middle (body to neck cut) = 0.917”
Rear = 0.974"

Side view of 4MJ bottom metal with spring and follower removed:

View of slight flat area, milled so bottom metal would fit within the full-length bedding block in the B&C Medalist synthetic stock:

Top-side view of the magazine box showing milling transition body area the neck area:

View of milling within the floorplate:

View of the 404 Jeffery follower:

There you go Ron… I finally completed my homework…

03 June 2014, 04:28

RIP

Very interesting.
Narrower at the bottom middle and rear widths than at the top?
Just the opposite of what I was thinking.
That is just the opposite of what he does with the XRM sheetmetal box for .375 H&H.

03 June 2014, 05:44

capoward

Yes it’s just the opposite of how I thought it’d be as well. But it works!

Guess it makes sense though when one thinks about it. 1st round stacks under the right rail of the box, 2nd round stacks under the left rail of the box, and 3rd round under the right rail of the box – so it needs to be slightly wider in the area under the rails for proper retention and feeding. And it feeds all three rounds very slickly. The 4th round is kinda a pita in the sense it wants to slip towards the left rail when moving the bolt forward to catch it under the extractor; a little practice will eliminate my ‘thumb bumbling’ though.

22 August 2014, 13:48

capoward

quote:
Originally posted by RIP:
Jim,
Here is the Wiebe XRM M70 Classic box with three of our ".500/.338 Lapua Magnum Improved" (12.7x68 Magnum/49-10) wildcat cartridge dummies crammed into the box, longest COAL seen here is 3.583" with the 430-grain CEB MTH bullet loaded in brass that is 2.657" max/2.647" min. in length, with Wiebe magazine follower that he makes for this box, and the regular M70 flat magazine spring:

Here is the same as above except the follower is switched to a Winchester M70 Classic magazine follower made of aluminum alloy which switches the top cartridge to the other side:

Here is the Winchester Classic M70 RUM box, follower, and spring as from the factory:

Summary:

All three photos above are with three cartridges in the box, along with spring and a follower compressed beneath the cartridges as when the rifle is loaded.

The XRM M70 Classic box will allow 3 of our 12.7x68 Magnum/49-10 cartridges down in the box and close the bolt and work the action, but the XRM box will not allow that 4th cartridge to be partially loaded into the box for CRF. You could pushfeed the 4th cartridge as the bolt is closed over 3 down, that's all.

The windowed RUM box will only allow two down in the box with bolt closed, but would CRF the third off the top of the box as the bolt is closed.

Using the RUM windowed box and the Sunny Hill drop floor plate gives extra space, but that drop floor plate is designed to fit the standard Winchester sheetmetal boxes (windowed 300 RUM and non-windowed .375 H&H), not the wider bottom of the XRM.

Hey! Whatever works is what I say now.
"Screw the Mauser cosine law."
Too skinny is OK as long as it is deep enough.
Not so deep but wider is OK too, as long as it works.
Nobody has ever made a Mauser Cosine Perfect box for a .416 Rigby or .505 Gibbs that I have ever been aware of. Must be top secret, or after a point they just start using straight-in-line stacks.
Yes, we live and we learn.

New corollary to "Viking Laws of Gunmaking" is number 4 below.

1. Everything is relative.
2. It depends.
3. Whatever works.
4. Screw the Mauser Cosine Law.
5. There are no absolutes.

Note: Bolded with red lettering above quoted test...

I was just killing time before roosting so was re-reading some of our old threads. Lo and behold, this popped right up to peak my interest:
The XRM M70 Classic box will allow 3 of our 12.7x68 Magnum/49-10 cartridges down in the box and close the bolt and work the action, but the XRM box will not allow that 4th cartridge to be partially loaded into the box for CRF. You could pushfeed the 4th cartridge as the bolt is closed over 3 down, that's all.

I definitely read the information the first time but missed its importance due to being focused on the ability to partially thumb the 4th round down in the box to be picked up by the extractor to chamber the round. The M70 extractor is bevel designed to snap over the rim when “push-feeding” a round into the chamber.

Anyway, the reason this peaked my interest is because it requires very little to bring a FN SC Winchester M70 up to 3-down with the .338 Lapua Magnum derivatives while allowing “push-feeding” the 4th round into the chamber. This I perceive is important because the factory M70 Winchester rifles in RUM and WSM chambering configurations allow only 3-down in the magazine and one must “push-feeding” the 4th round into the chamber.

Well, time to roost…