.375 Ultra Mag in Africa

31 December 2001, 16:56

<GAHUNTER>

I am planning on taking my first African safari in 2003. Since this will be my one and only trip, I don't see the need to spend $10,000 on a double rifle or buy a .416 that will be used only once. At least with a .375 I can use it on large North American game.

I have a cousin that makes custom rifles. So, I recently asked him to make me a .375 RUM with a Kreiger barrel. I like the idea of the RUM because it can be loaded to hit with the same muzzle energy as a .416 Remington. I figure this to be an improvement of 1000 ft. lbs over the .375 H&H.

The other day he called me and said that in order to build one like that(with the Krieger barrel), he would have to get a reamer, with me bearing that expense, since he doesn't have anyone standing in line to buy this caliber. He suggested instead that we order a barreled Sendero action from Remington and he'll customize it. This came as a shock since he normally throws away factory barrels. When he builds a rifle, even a heavy sporting cartridge, he's not satisfied unless he gets consistant 1/2 MOA groups. He claims factory barrels simply can't do this consistantly.

I know the Sendero is a pretty good action and barrel, but I'm not sure which way I want to go. I realize, of course, that Cape Buffalo are seldom shot at distances of over 100 yards and that at that range there's very little difference between 1/2 MOA and 2 MOA. But what about later? Then again, maybe it will shoot just fine

He didn't tell me how much the reamer would be, but I gather that it is rather expensive for a one-shot deal.

What would you guys do? Buy the reamer and get the match grade barrel, or go with the factory barrel?

31 December 2001, 17:47

Socrates

Why not buy a 416 Rigby, Czech 550, and then download it so you can us it in NA?

I was just looking at the reloading books, and th 416 shoots a 300 grain slug at something like 2900 fps. Heavier slug, same velocity, flat, and more retained energy.

I think the 550 comes with a 25-6 inch barrel, and many people are really happy with their accuracy.

Go have a look at the What's your most accurate bigbore thread, and you will be amazed how many people say 416, in one, ragged hole.

Besides, a 416 would be useable on any game in NA.

31 December 2001, 18:06

Ga hunter, Socrates is spot on the money I have a cz 550 with custom glass stock and have placed a 2-7X33 leupold on it in cz mounts. I am wrapped with the way it comes to the shoulder. I have only fired fullhouse loads through it to date yes they kic but not that much that you won't learn to cope. And I reckon it would be a good bear caliber no fly's on a 410 gr woodleigh softnose at 2650 fps.

My second suggestion would be to chamber that rifle in .378 weatherby magnum rather than .375 ultra, just a little more stoke than the rum and your smith will probably be able to lay his hands on a reamer. Just my thoughts on the matter.

Regards PC

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31 December 2001, 18:12

John S

Well...I just checked Clymer's website and see the reamer would cost under a hundred bucks so that shouldn't be a big deal. The choice between the Ultra and 416 isn't either, both will do fine in Africa or here in the states on large game.
If I may, I'd suggest you consider the 375Wby. You'll have more magazine capacity than with the Ultra and it doesn't fall very far behind at all in velocity. Brass is also cheaper, just fireform H&H brass. Use that Krieger match barrel either way!

31 December 2001, 23:29

Mike375

GAHUNTER

I don't think the Sendero comes in 375 Ultra. You would need to buy either the BDL or African Game Rifle, which is expensive, but if you are happy with Rem 700, it might give you want you want straight out of the box.

Here it is

http://www.remington.com/2001/fi_700abg.htm

You don't appear to be real caliber minded or a traditonalist, so I would by pass both the 416 Rem or 416 Rigby and for a couple of reasons. The amount of big game you will ever shoot you are never going to see the difference. But if you want to play around, then basically bullet availability drops way off once you go past 375 bore size.

I think your best bet would be to buy the BDL, and have a play with the rifle and caliber, and then go from there.

Actually if I was not so pro Winchester and anti Remington and also stuck on 375 H&H, I would have a safe full of 375 Ultras for all my shooting instead of Model 70s in 375 H&H.

John S's suggestion of a 375 Wby (375 H&H Improved) is another suggestion and does have merit over the 375 Ultra, especially if being able to fire 375 H&H factory ammo is an issue for you. Also with top loads the 375 Ultra will probably be only about 100 f/s quicker, at the very most, over the 375 H&H Improved.

I have always thought that the 375 H&H had the best combination of practicality, pizzaz and performance but the 375 Ultra might just beat it.

Remember Saeed's two 375/404s are in reality 375 Ultras and he uses those two rifles exclusively for eveyrhing.

Mike

[This message has been edited by Mike375 (edited 12-31-2001).]

31 December 2001, 23:38

Jon A

How about http://www.reamerrentals.com/ .

It's like $29 to rent the reamers. I won't vouch for the quality of their stuff as I have no experience with it but I've seen them advertise in many of the major mags, so if they have a bad rep your smith should have heard about it.

01 January 2002, 05:05

HunterJim

GAHunter,

The classic knock on rebated cases such as the Remington UM and SAUM is problems with feeding. I would like to hear some real world testing on dangerous game with the M700 and the .375 UM before going with that caliber. In addition to Craig B. and Chub Eastman shooting one buff each that is.

Aspect number two is bullet versus velocity. .375s already have a lot of penetration, some in Afdrica load the H&H down a bit for close range use on Cape buff. Kevin Robertson has written about his experience using .375 reloads with the MV down around 2,450 fps.

I shoot two .375 H&H rifles and one in carbine in .376 Steyr. For a one hunt rifle with follow-on use in North America, there are lots of reasons to stay with the .375.

The .375 Weatherby version is recommended above, and that is a good choice. Weatherby has re-introduced the caliber into their line and is once again making ammunition. The .378 Weatherby is too much of a good thing though, and I would not recommend it for you. Weatherby says on their site that their 300 grain .375 W load had an MV of 2,800 fps, while Remington says 2,760 fps for the 375 UM -- call that identical for our purposes.

jim dodd

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"if you are to busy to
hunt, you are too busy."

01 January 2002, 05:34

Saeed

Gahunter,

If you are thinking of having just one rifle for everything, I think the 375 is a better bet.

I have use them for several years in Africa, and shot all sorts of game with them. Ranging from the small antelope, the klipspringer, to elephants.

------------------
saeed@ emirates.net.ae

www.accuratereloading.com

01 January 2002, 05:50

<GAHUNTER>

You see, I knew there was a good reason I asked this question on this forum.

You guys have just about convinced me to give up on the Ultra Mag and go with the Weatherby. Same ballistics, more versatile.

Since I am a handloader (like most of you), how do I get brass for this caliber? I understand that I can fire-form H&H brass, but do I have to do anything after that? When shooting H&H ammo, will it perfom in the larger chamber of the Weatherby?

Then again, I guess I'll have the same problem of reaming the barrel, but maybe I can talk him into renting a reamer.

Thanks guys.

01 January 2002, 06:48

ForrestB

Gahunter-

I believe you are over-engineering the solution to a simple problem. Get a 375 H&H and learn to shoot it well. As a handloader, you will find it to be a wonderfully versatile cartridge for all game.

I think the 375 RUM and the 375 Wby and 378 Wby are a problem maker for most shooters. If you think a 416 doesn't make sense for North America but these hopped-up 375's do, you're kidding yourself.

Most importantly, be careful saying in advance "this will be my one and only trip to Africa". You may find yourself eating crow.

Enjoy your planning and enjoy your trip.

Forrest

01 January 2002, 07:40

dan belisle

There are a few ways to get 375 Wby brass. First and most expensive, buy it from Weatherby. They are selling brass and factory ammo again. A Square used to sell it as well (I have some of their brass) but I don't know if they are still in business. Second, buy the cheapest (relatively speaking) 375 H & H ammo you can find and use it for practice. Yes you can shoot the H & H stuff in the 375 Weatherby chamber and it comes out fully formed. Or just buy 375 H & H brass from whomever, load up some cheap bullets, and fire away. Again, it comes out of the chamber fully formed. Be aware that some countries in Africa will not let you bring (I'm told) ammo in with a different headstamp then what your rifle is chambered for. So having some brass with the correct headstamp for Africa is a good idea. For everything else though, any 375 H & H brass will work. If you're like me and you have more than one wildcat or semi-widcst based on this brass, you might want to segregate by brand for each caliber. As my senior moments become more common, I find this saves me a lot of memory work. As for the 375 H & H versus 375 Wby, or RUM or whatever, some of us just like to drive fast. Hope this helps. - Dan

01 January 2002, 10:11

HenryC470

I'd like to know if anyone has run into this problem in real life: wildcat or fireformed ammo getting confiscated in Africa.

I think it was Boddington's book I saw this in, but I could be wrong.

The problem is that some countries will insist that the caliber stamped on the rifle match the headstamp of the cartridges. That way, it doesn't appear that you are importing ammo that you don't intend to hunt with.

According to whoever it is, and I think it is Boddington, you can run into a problem trying to bring in, say, 458 Lott cartridges made from 375 H&H, because the case heads will still say 375 H&H, and your rifle doesn't. A 378 Weaterby rifle and fireformed H&H cases sees to give you the same problem, unless you've talked yur gunsmith into not stamping the new caliber on the rechambered rifle.

Anyone ever hear of this being an actual problem?

H.C.

01 January 2002, 11:38

John S

Ethiopia is the one country that seems "sticky" about your ammo matching the gun barrel. All the rest pay no attention to it, or at most will ask a few questions.
The 375Wby still says 375 so I seriously doubt any trouble would arise from it's use.
As was previously stated, just buy 3 boxes of their brass so you will have properly marked brass for Africa, the rest can be fireformed from WW or other 375H&H brass. This makes for good practice shooting so you get two benefits from it!
I am currently having a 375Wby made for myself and have followed my own advice by buying a few boxes of the "real" stuff to augment my supply of H&H brass that will be formed.
The cartridge is a good one, it will deliver all the velocity you need for any hunting situation up close or far out. It can also be downloaded a bit to H&H spec's for certain applications.
I'd still rather have a 416 for buffalo, but if you're just going to make this a one time deal then by all means stay with the 375 as it will prove far more versatile and cheaper to shoot for everything else.

01 January 2002, 12:21

<George Hoffman>

HenryC470,
What you mention, is, or was a true story. The reason I know, is it happened to me in Ethiopia. I wrote a open letter to SCI and it was published in "SAFARI" magazine and everyone picked up on it. Some countries pay no attention, but others will. In my case I had fireformed 416 Hoffman ammo with .375 H&H head stamps and they would not let them go with the rifle. I also, had some with no headstamps and they let them go.
Georg

01 January 2002, 12:22

HunterJim

Henry,

I have seen the checking entering Namibia. There was an Austrian ahead of me. The firearms inspector took all the ammunition out of its boxes and checked the headstamp. One by one -- pretty tedious for shotgun shells I can tell you!

The Austrian did not have problems, so I did not get to witness any ammunition being seized. My ammo was in my laggage which didn't make it, so it was not checked at all when it came in on a later flight. (It was forwarded from the airport to camp.)

Other places I have been the customs people just ask for a declaration of number and type of cartridges.

jim dodd

------------------
"if you are to busy to
hunt, you are too busy."

01 January 2002, 18:30

HenryC470

quote:
Originally posted by George Hoffman:
...I also, had some with no headstamps and they let them go.
Georg

Bet you're glad you did.

H.C.

02 January 2002, 03:33

Ralph

GA Hunter,
As your just starting out I would recommend the .375 H&H. It is a very easy shooting rifle and if you want to zip it up Federal and Hornady make High Energy/Heavy magnum loads which will clock approx 2700fps. Beware about thinking you'll only hunt Africa once. I said the same thing and am going again this summer. It's addicting.
Ralph
PS You'll always find some 375H&H in camp if your ammo is lost. This happened to me as my baggage was delayed for two days.

[This message has been edited by Ralph (edited 01-01-2002).]