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Re: Difference Btwn 416 Rem & 416 Rigby

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29 June 2004, 15:36
ASS_CLOWN
Re: Difference Btwn 416 Rem & 416 Rigby
Zero Drift,

Quote:

It�s all about the size of the hole. The bigger the hole, the quicker they die.



Is this really true? I have seen deer shot with 12 slugs ~ 0.729" diameter slug, take a considerable time to die. On the contrary, same size deer shot with 30-06 seem to die much quicker. Recovered bullets ~ 0.55" in diameter.

ASS_CLOWN
28 June 2004, 12:02
phurley
I own and shoot both .416's extensively, in fact I just shot both my rifles this afternoon. I like them both and load both to shoot the 370 grain North Fork 2450 fps and the 400 grain Hornady and 400 grain Swift A-Frame approximately the same. You ask the difference, the short and sweet of it is 20 to 24 grains of powder for about the same speed. The Remington generates more pressure which is not noticable by me after four years of shooting it in all temperatures. I load the Remington 78 to 82 grains of RL-15, I load the Rigby from 98 grains to 104 of RL-22 or H-4831SC respectfully, the extra powder is noticable to this shooter. Yes you can step the Rigby on up but most feel the need is not necessary. I hunt Africa for Buffalo this year and will take the Remington in Winchester Model 70, but only because the Rigby is a Ruger # 1 and the possible need for followup shots. My .02 Good shooting.
28 June 2004, 14:57
Nickudu
The Remington round produces the same practical effect on DG as the Rigby, in a rifle that is easier to hunt hard with. The reality is, the Rigby's reputation was established at a velocity more like 2,300 fps, a velocity which the Remington round easily exceeds. Magazine type for magazine type, the Remington provides increased firepower in a smaller, faster working action. In .416, the Remington makes more sense.
28 June 2004, 18:06
500grains
Quote:

500grains,



I might offer that those are just slight exaggerations.



My 416 Rem. gets easy 2400 fps for 400 grain bullets and the cases do not stick. High pressure?...I don't know. But it goes bang which is the most important thing to me.





Yup, and Weatherby factory ammo does not cause stuck cases at the Norma factory in Sweden. But it does at 115 degrees F. in the tropics.



The hard fact is that the case capacity of the 416 Rem is not enough to generate 2400 fps with a 400 grain bullet unless you are in the 60,000 to 65,000 psi range. Compare that to 42000 psi or so for the Rigby. Then let your ammo roast at 115 degrees F., possibly in the sun (if your ammo belt leaves the cartridges exposed), and the pressure is over 70,000 psi which means........stuck cases.



But if you hunt during the winter months, that problem will not occur.
28 June 2004, 23:12
Will
The primary reason I chose the Rem. over the Rigby was magazine capacity.



As far as pressure is concerned, the A-Square manual shows mid 40000's for the Rigby and low to mid 50000's for the Rem. in psi pressure at 2400 fps.



Yes, the Rem. operates at higher pressure for the same velociy (big surprise), but I have never had any problem in the African sun, nor have I heard of anyone having a problem.



Everybody and their dog has a 416 Rem. in Zim. If it was so bad we'd hear about it.




29 June 2004, 04:55
500grains
Quote:

The primary reason I chose the Rem. over the Rigby was magazine capacity.



As far as pressure is concerned, the A-Square manual shows mid 40000's for the Rigby and low to mid 50000's for the Rem. in psi pressure at 2400 fps.



Yes, the Rem. operates at higher pressure for the same velociy (big surprise), but I have never had any problem in the African sun, nor have I heard of anyone having a problem.



Everybody and their dog has a 416 Rem. in Zim. If it was so bad we'd hear about it.









Will, I am surprised you did not hear about the stuck cases incidents with Remington 416 Rem factory ammo. That was before Rem cut the loads back. They are now claiming about 150 fps more velocity than the loads actually generate, unless they have changed their loading once more.



How's about this excerpt:



Quote:

.416 Rem is another problem cartridge in this regard. One candidate had some fairly fresh (so he thought) Federal trophy bonded rounds. 17 out of twenty in the box were beginning to shed their bullets. Velocity for the 400grn bullets varied from 2120fps to 2390fps. Another disquieting fact about the .416 Rem cartridge is beginning to show. Inexplicable pressure problems in the occasional factory round. As mentioned under the Remington rifles, the model 700's in .416 seem to break extractors with unreasonable regularity. Is this due to pressure problems with the cartridge as much as design failure of the rifle? I have seen stuck cases and had to beat the bolts open on other makes of rifle chambered for this round before this last exam. Nimrod cartridges also tell me that they have had great difficulty coming up with a good load for the .416 Rem due to the occasional pressure spike. PMP in South Africa reported likewise.







Or this one:



Quote:



In this caliber, the .416 Rigby reigns supreme. It can do anything the .416 Remington can do, at mach less pressure. The generous case is a hand loaders delight. You can improve on the ballistics by hand loading this cartridge, but why tamper with perfection? With a bullet weight of 410 grains, a soft nosed bullet of premium quality is adequate for any lion, leopard or elephant, rhino and hippo, you have the perfect combination. The .416 Remington, Taylor, etc. will do the same job, but with more recoil, and more pressure. In the hot African / South African climate, pressure tends to climb and sometimes may result in sticky extraction and stuck cases. This tends to get you dead.










29 June 2004, 09:03
Nickudu
Build two rifles of equal weight and let me know which recoils more. There are no free lunches. The Rigby must burn more powder to equal the Remington and more still, to surpass it. You'll never see a difference afield.
29 June 2004, 09:34
Zero Drift

You guys need to save all the brain burn and simply grab the best .416 made - the .416 Dakota. Standard length action, Rigby performance, 4 cartridge magazine, feeds like a champ, burns less powder than the Rigby, has no pressure concerns, and no has belt.

There is so much hype and myth surrounding the Remington it is not funny (stuck cases, high pressure, blaa, blaa, blaa) Apparently, few have any real world experience with the cartridge. There is nothing wrong with the Rem, it�s just that it is the little brother to the Dakota and Rigby.

I have owned rifles in all three cartridges. I still have my .416 Dakota and .416 Rigby...
29 June 2004, 09:37
GeorgeS
Would a .416 Dakota fit and feed in an M-70 without too much modification? Would it fit three or four rounds?

George
P.S. I should just buy a spare copy of COTW and keep it here in the office.
29 June 2004, 09:42
500grains
Will, the 416 rem comes in at 66,600 psi (measured by piezo).
29 June 2004, 09:54
Stryker225
What's the case capacity for the 416 Dakota Vs. the Rigby?
29 June 2004, 10:42
Zero Drift

.416 Dakota Case Capacity = 116 grains of water



100gr of H-4831SC nets 2550 fps +/-



It will fit a standard magnum action and with the Dakota floor plate will fit 4 rounds in the magazine.



<<< .416 Comparisons >>>



.416 Rigby Beltless Case:



Base - .5902"

Base to Shoulder - 2.3557"

Base to Neck - 2.4024"

Base to Mouth (OAL) - 2.9"

Shoulder Angle - 45 degrees





.416 Hoffman Belted Case:



Base - .532"

Base to Shoulder - 2.430"

Base to Neck - 2.478"

Base to Mouth (OAL) - 2.850"

Shoulder Angle - 24.1 degrees





416 Remington Belted Case:



Base - .532"

Base to Shoulder - 2.389"

Base to Neck - 2.4306"

Base to Mouth (OAL) - 2.850"

Shoulder Angle - 25 degrees





416 Dakota Beltless Case:



Base - .5450"

Base to Shoulder - 2.2760"

Base to Neck - 2.350"

Base to Mouth (OAL) - 2.850"

Shoulder Angle - 30 degrees